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# j B ISSUED 8EBKI-WEKKLY. ' L m. qrist'S sons, Pabii.h,r?. j & 4amilS ?eujspapen: 4or (hi! jpromolion o# th< political, gonial, agricultural and 0'ommerLcinI Interests o( the jpeopt<. | ,e""n;;?" ESTABLISHED 1855. YORKVILLE. S. O., FRIDAY, JULY 197191-2. NO. 58/" THE FRAME-UP Dictagraph of tl * Gove INTERESTING RECORD OF P * Detective Sought to Tem Story of Opportunity Uses all His Wiles to f Possible. Although the last Issue of The Enquirer was pretty well filled with testimony submitted to the Investigating committee at Augusta, t'e story was not complete. It developed after the adjournmen that for the evident purpost of producing a better effect Mr. Felder had submitted the last part of his story gfirst, and the first part was ^ not submitted to the committee until - ? mU. Af after it had aajournea. i ne pat?. the record published by the committee related to the alleged pardon negotiations after they had begun to reach a white heat, when the eagerness for the jg big fact that was ofTerefl was naturally growing stronger and stronger. For a more complete understanding of such an unusual case it is obviously proper that the reader should have more of especially the beginning, and we herewith reproduce the dictagraph record giving the developments of an alleged conference of five hours in the Finch was as follows: Dictagraph Record. The following pages comprise transcript of my notes taken stenograph!cally by means of the dictagraph, of a Nl conversation between Samuel J. Nichols and Henry N. Porter, at Spartanburg, S. C., on Saturday, June 22. 1912, beginning at about 12.40 p. m. Said conversation taking place in the I'bom occupied by said Porter, being room No. 46. Finch hotel, and I occupying room No. 48 .Finch hotel: Mr. Porter: How do you do, Mr. Nichols? Come in. Mr. Nichols: Good evening, Mr. Porter; I'm going to Washington tonight, and I haven't got much time. Mr. Porter: How long will you be ? there? A Mr. Nichols: I suppose I'll be there about a week, I'm going to that convention. Mr. Porter: I was just thinking maybe you could get away for a day or two and meet me, say in Chicago? Mr. Nichols: It's going to be awful g for me to get away, Mr. Porter, we are just as busy as we can be. Mr. Porter: I presume it would be the better way for me to perhaps drop down here, if it Is so that I could. I'm pretty well tied up though, and I don't know about that. Mr, Nichols: Yes, we are about in the same fix, we're awful busy, Just as busy as we can be. If the convention K^^olr im In time to let me get awny. I'll b<< flxed, U might be possible for me to go from there, because I want to get back a day or two before our court begins; our court begins about that time and we have court three weeks, and I have got lots of > business and, of course, I'd like to get back here a day or two before court so I could kinder go over things. I was Just thinking I could leave the convention up there and we are personal friends, I know him very well and have known him for several years, and I am instructed for Wilson, but our convention has passed resolutions endorsing ^ him, so I have got to go there and vote for Wilson, but after Wilson's out, I have no instructions at all, and then I can vote for Harmon, if I want to. Mr. Porter: It doesn't take but a day and night. Mr. Nichols: It might be so that I could leave the convention on the 25th, it might be that I could be back here on the 27th or 28th?I believe I could get back by the 1st or 2nd, couldn't I? What did you want me to go to Chicago for, Mr. Porter? Mr. Porter: Why to save me a trip down here, and we could talk matters over there. That is, if you give me any encouragement along those lines, and from what you said the other night I believe? ^ As to Securing Pardon. w Mr. Nichols: Oh, I believe we can get the matter through, as far as that s concerned. I know this that Blease has never refused to do anything I have told him to do since he has been governor and he refers everything to ^ me. Lots of people go there and he , refers it to me. He always asks my opinion, and he acts on that opinion, and he does that all over the country here: he Isn't going to do anything without consulting me about it, one way or the other, and if I ask him to do it I'm satisfied he will do it. Only one thing in the way about it, I have ^f heard incidentally from other lawyers that Blease has told them that he wouldn't consider anything during his campaign; that he didn't have time to look into the matter, he didn't think, and wouldn't grant any other pardons until after the election. But P? I believe, even with that. If I Insist on it. it will be granted. Blease is this kind of fellow?there's no doubt about it?if he takes a notion to act, he's a fellow that will act, he don't care a durn about that. Mr. Porter: I believe he's a man that is thoroughly independent. Mr. Nichols: Oh, yes. he's absolutely independent, he's a man of his own convictions. But even if he don't consider It before the election, even it it is late, it is better late than never. The fight that they are making on Blease right now is on his pardon record, that's the great reason they are fighting him. It's like Ben Till~ man says?there's been an accumulation for thp Inst fiftv vnnrs and erov ernors have been afraid to pardon them, because people talked about it ?our records show that plainly. Please got in there, and he went and did what he thought was right about it?he got in there and put them to sleep. When are you going to Chicago, Mr. Porter? Mr. Porter: I'm going tonight. I thought, perhaps, if we had a few hours together, we could get everyJL thing straightened up, but as long as you are going away. I don't think it would be well to go into it. Mr. Nichols: I don't think so either. I've got a great many things this afternoon to do. Mr. Porter: Of course, I'm going to be liberal in the matter; there's no doubt about the money, and if you think it's worth while, knowing all the circumstances and the way you are situated and the way the governor feels in this matter. I think we could make it worth while all-round. Mr. Nichols: Well. I'll tell you. it was rather fortunate. I think, that you hunted me up, because there is absolutely no chance in the world to get him out, and?well, there's no chance to get him out unless we can get him out. and if we fail he will have to stay there, that's just the sit nation, and as far as I'm personally ** concerned?of course, I'll go over there and see if we can handle it. the only thing I know it's going to be awful hard to do anything until after the election. Mr. Nichols. Please might put it up ^ to me in this way: There's been other people that have been after me for pardons, and I have told them I wouldn't consider any of them until after the election, and if I grant this AT THE FINCH ie Bait to Catch jrnor. ROFESSIOWAL CONFERENCE pt Lawyer With Plausible for Big Fee and Lawyer Stretch the Fee as Far as pardon until after the election, they will get after me about It. Mr. Porter: But It should be shown that the circumstances are extenuating. Wouldn't that make a difference? On Securing Petitions. Mr. Nichols: Oh, well, I don't mean to give up hope . Here's what: Get a petition in circulation, get it signed? we can get the petition signed all right, a great many people here will sign it for the simple reason that I want them to. Blease don't care a damn who signs the petition, all he wants is the petition signed; he knows the money influence is against him anyhow. I'll take the petition, send it out and get 2,000 names in a week, and that's all the evidence Blease wnntu These are the people who vote for him, apd he knows these other people?he ain't caring a damn for them?and they will be justified In signing their names, you know, they are the people who elected me, you know; so I wouldn't go down there without a petition of that kind, you know. Mr. Porter: No, I wouldn't want you to. Now, when you talk matters over with him, place yourself in this position, that there's a good deal Involved here? Mr. Nichols: Here's what I would tell Blease, if I was down there with this petition, I would tell Blease "here's the facts and circumstances; this man was convicted in Spartanburg, and he was sentenced for this thing; it was all one and the same act. Now, it means a good fee to me if there's a pardon; I think there's par,-n that ought to be granted, and some I don't think." They think Blease is taking graft, that's a damn lie. Blease has never received a cent since he has been governor. But with me, I'm practicing law, and cases come to me and I have to make fees out of it; he wouldn't take anything himself, though. Now, I know him; Blease says "I'll tell you what I'll do, I think your pardon ought to be "ranted," and that's all. It might be that I could go up there and save you a trip down here. Mr. Porter: There's splendid service between New York and Chicago; it's only eighteen hours from Washington to Chicago? Mr. Nichols: Are you going to New York? Mr. Porter: And it may be that I could catch you down there. Mr. Nichols: That's what I say; are you going to New York? Mr. Porter: No, I'm expecting to go to Chicago, but I might go over to New York, and It's only a short ride from New York to Washington, or it may be that you could come to New York to see me? Mr. Nichols: When are you going, tonight? You ought' to leave this afternoon, if you're going to Chicago, you take the Carolina Special, that's the best train, the Carolina Special, you can get a through sleeper to Chicago, without a change of cars, leave here at 4.15 this afternoon. Mr. Porter: Where could I reach you? Where do you stop in Washington? Mr. Nichols: I'm going from here to Baltimore. In Washington I stop at the House, I expect, but you'll find me at the Albemarle Hotel In Baltimore. Mr. Porter: That's so, you're going to Paltimore instead of Washington. Mr. Nichols: Yes. I've got a brother there in the hospital, and I'm going to stop off there and see him. Here's the way I feel about it; I got a letter asking me to come up there to be on the ground, and I know that he knows that in case?we're for Wilson, our delegation is, and they'll vote for him on the first ballot and as long as he's got a chance, but after that we are uninstructed. Mr. Porter: I could reach you by wire at the Albemarle, at Baltimore, could I? Mr. Nichols: Yes, sir, at any time after Monday morning, I'll be there if I go to Chicago or New York to meet you, I'll be there when the convention is over, but if you find that ylou can't get hack to New York, if you could wire me there, why it might he possible that I could leave?here's the only reason I don't know whether I could leave or not I wouldn't leave the convention if I thought T could do Mr. Harmon any good, but I could see in a day or two ...VvA*hn?. v^a'o cr/if o phnnoo nnrl if hp WIICII1VI Iir o ftw U V?k?mvx. - ? doesn't stand a chance. I'll go out, and if I can fix things for him before I leave, then I'll go out. but if I could do him any good then, of course I wouldn't go. Mr. Porter: Then, in that case. I'll keep In touch with you and we may meet in Chicago. Possibilities of Pardon. Mr. Nichols: Well. I'll tell you this. Mr. Porter, just as I say, you arc much more familiar with the case than I am. but I don't want you to overlook the fact that whatever is to be done must be done right away. I think Blease will be elected. I don't know whether he will or not, but in my judgment in politics, he will he, and if he is elected, he's going to keep on. he isn't going to change his tactics at all. he's going to pardon who he feels like. If he's defeated, that man won't get out there in ten years. Mr. Porter: Oh, I believe with your influence with the governor?you understand him thoroughly?and I think you might get lip some circumstances? Mr. Nichols: Well, I think this: I think If Blease would say "Here, I'm going to grant this pardon until after the election"?I think he would promise me that?we can count on him. if he is elected, to give this pardon. Now. I've got a case right now, where a fellow escaped from down there, he was sent up for life, and he has been out five years and served about ten years: Blease told me that matter's all right, and he will pardon this man, he's a fugitive from justice, "I'll pardon him if you say so, but if I pardon him before the election, they'll say I'm pardoning a fugitive from justice." He don't care what they say, if he feels like it, he can pardon them. Mr. Porter: Of course. I'm not a man that expects something for nothing. and if you think well of it. we might make a suitable donation to his campaign fund. Of course, we all know that these elections are expensive. and require the expenditure of more or less money. Mr. Nichols: No, he wouldn't do that, he wouldn't accept a cent. Of course, in politics in this county, you have got to use money, that's all there is about that. At that last election, Please, of course, got up his campaign fund and 1 wrote him and told him about things, he wrote and told me to draw on his for whatever is necessary and use it for whatever I thought best. All the funds that was necessary, I put up myself, so I wouldn't let him pay a nickel, and I really paid all the expenses of his campaign in this county at that time, and I'm going to spend some more this time, I'm not going to let him do it. but I'm going to do It. I'm not going to let him do it at all. Mr. Porter: What I was going to say, you know him better than I do, i but that proposition is open to him; as far as that is concerned, I don't wanl anything for nothing. Mr. Nichols: Oh, certainly, I know you don't. I know what Blease is, h< isn't going to do anything that will let them get it on him, becaua< they would give him hell. Now, I car go to Blease with this proposition? I'm going to put up the money at Spartanburg, but it's my money, you have got a right to make a donation if yoi want to; of course, everybody knows in politics you have got to spend money. Mr. Porter: Well, that clarifies th< situation a little bit. At the same tlm< I always want people to feel that I'nr not going to look for something foi nothing; I'm going to benefit by this of course. Mr. Nichols: It Just amounts to this in this proposition; if you made this proposition before Blease is elected you couldn't have got it started, ] don't know of a governor that would have granted a pardon, but if he is elected at all, he will do it. Now, if 1 take hold of your proposition there are about three or four fellows in "towr here that I could get on that petition; they are among Blease's strongest supporters, and they always fought me? one was the mayor of this town, he was quite a politician in town here? Landrum and ; those fellows were against me always and against Tillman; when I went out for Blease, they walked right out for him, and they will do anything I ask them to. Now, if I take hold of your proposition, every one of those fellows will back me up in it, I can get on the train and go and see the governor, and every one of them will tell the governor it ought to be done. That's the situation now? Landrum is on the governor's staff. All those fellow's Influence will help us, on/1 V* o f 'o whof xxra have trot to hfl VP Mr. Porter: Oh, my, yes, speak of those men, without them there wouldn't be anything to it at all. Alleged Promise. Mr. Nichols: Well, I can enlist in your behalf every strong Blease supporter in the Piedmont section. I'll tell you what I'd do in regard to this matter; I'd undertake this pardon, represent your people in trying to get it, on this sort of proposition?we haven't got time to agree on the details now? I'll go ahead to get these petitions up and I'll have them signed; if I fail to get the pardon, that's all right, Just pay me for the actual work done; but if I do succeed in getting the pardon, then I be paid?I'll take no contingencies, if I get it, I be paid for it, and if I don't, then you pay the actual expenses. Mr. Porter: That's very satisfactory, that's all right. Mr. Nichols: Because if I don't get it, I wouldn't want any money. Mr. Porter: Now in connection with any agreement we might make in that respect?I'd be very gad to do that, and I doubt we could come to some agreement that would be satisfactory very soon. Mr. Nichols: It's Just as I say, If I take hold of this matter?I don't want you to use this. It's Just between you and me; it's coming out of you, my trade is with you, but you can do absolutely nothing in the matter by paying. Of course you don't know the governor; if I take hold of it and don't get the pardon, you don't pay anything except the actual expenses, and if we get it through, then you pay. I would be associated with you in the matter, and if I take hold of the matter you can go ahead and take your trip, and I could wire you in a day or two after I get my proposition presented what will be done, because Blease is this sort of fellow: he will tell you, "I will grant this pardon now," or "I will grant it after the election," or "I won't grant it at all." I can find out in fifteen minutes what he will do, and if he tells you he ain't going to do it, no use to fool with him?no use for anybody to fool with him. Mr. Porter: Well, I'm going to rely upon your Judgment. I have had dealings with men before and I know how to understand these matters. The way the thing is tied up I can't get out from under It very well, and I'm going to be gone indeflnitey, as I told you before; I think I'm coming back, so we'll leave it that way. Mr. Nichols: I'll tell you what I can do; I can take the matter up with you after the court is over with. Mr. Porter: About what date would that be? Mr. Nichols: Court starts on the 8th and we have two weeks of it. It would be about the latter part of July; the campaign starts on the 18th. Cole will be out making speeches every day until the 26th; he has a week off from the 26th, he will be in politics all that time, and if I can get away on the 22nd I can go that week and catch him in his office. if he wants to act. Mr. Porter: That's very good, very good. Mr. Nichols: I think we can agree on terms. I can let you know whether he will be pardoned or whether he won't. Mr. Porter: It Isn't an entirely pleasant matter, but at the same time, these maters arise. "It Isn't Pleasant." Mr. Nichols: It isn't pleasant. I'll tell you why I hate to take hold of It. I have refused at least seventy-five petitions that have come to me to try and get pardons. Now, here in Spartanburg, they give me the very devil for supporting Blease, because all of my affiliations are the other way, you know, and all my kin people. Now, as I say, I hate to take hold of these matters becauso they have always been against him, and I have always supported him. and they say these corporations that I represent employ me on account of my influence with the governor, and the same way with these pardons?they say. "Oh, it's nothing but graft, he's making money out of it," but that's all a damn lie. For that reason, I have refused numbers and numbers of them. The only thing I have ever done since Blease has been governor that caused a lot of comment was this bill that was up for franchise to this interurban railroad from Spartanburg and Greenwood (?) to Charlotte (?); I was representing the Southern Power company, which was the same thing. I drew up the bill giving these powers, and there was quite a lot of lobbying, it was only carried by about three votes?just barely got it through. Of course Blease signed it, but I had a hell of .1 lime eettinir him to do it. I got up to Spartanburg, and the first thing I knew, they told me that it was rumored about that Rlease had said that he was going to veto it. We had an awful time getting it passed?just passed by about three votes, and if Rlease vetoed it, it would take a twothirds vote to carry it over his head? we only carried it by three votes. I went over there?I says, "Rlease hasn't vetoed that bill, he merely said he thought he would veto it, he hasn't acted. I'll call him up over the long distance phone." I called him up over the phone, and I said to him, "Governor. what about the interurban bill? We had an awful lot of trouble getting that thing through the house." He says. "I'm going to veto the damn thing;" I says. "Oh, don't lly off your nut." I says, "wait a minute," I said," "I want to talk that bill over with you before you finally act on it one way or the other, I want you to hold the matter in abeyance mitil you can hear from me; of course, I don't want you to do anything that you oughtn't to do. but 1 want you to give me a hearing on the matter;" he says, "I don't mind hearing you, but I don't want to do a thing for that crowd that's trying to get it through." He was sore on the crowd, you know. So I said. "I'll come up on the first train, don't veto it until I can get there;" he says. "I'll hear you on it. but I'll tell you frankly, Sam, I think I'll veto it;" I says. "All right, it is up to you, you are the governor, but I'm going to explain our side of the proposition." So I went to Columbia; everything was up in the air. He had told me he wouldn't do anything with it until he had heard from me. So I went and saw the governor. was leading counsel for the Southern rail t road, he was Blease's cousin and lived In the governor's mansion. I r says, "Blease, here's the situation? ? don't veto It; If you are either doing I this thing for one of two things, you i are either trying to take a shot at i Smyth or somebody has approached - you representing the Southern rail. road. Now, those are th? two things i we have got confronting the road," i and after I had talked to him half an i hour he saw which proposition was I the stronger. So we went Into executive session, you might call it, and 5 ?oh, yes, he had his stenographer; ? he says, "you don't mind my steno{ grapher taking down everything we . say, do you?" I says. "No, he can take down every word of It, if you want It." You see, Blease thought I was going to get mad and fly off the | handle and cuss him out, and he wanted to get It down so he could | have a record of It to show If any, body had anything to say. Well, I , took It up section by section; I said, r "I represent this company, and if ' there's anything objectionable In this convince you there's nothing objectionable, I'll bear you out, and if I can convince you there's nothing objectionable, you sign the bill." So we took it up section by section; I had 1 already prepared in my office copies or every rrancmse ever given a ran* 1 road In South Carolina, because I used it in preparing this charter, and he took it up section by section; I said, "I want to show you the franchise of the C. and W. C. railway, and so on; now. if they have It, how are we going to protect ourselves without it?" I stayed there four days with him, and took up each section, and Cole told me every morning. "I'll let you know in the morning whether I'll sign it;" then he said, "I won't sign It." We had an awful time about it; finally we got through and, and I says, "Cole, are you going to sign that?" He says, "No. I'm not going to sign it," and I says, "I've gone through every article In thJs bill with you, every section, and you have agreed tentatively with me it's all right; now, when we are through with it, now are you going to sign It or veto It?" He says, "I can't sign It." I says, "I want to tell you this"?his stenographer was sitting right there, I don't know whether he took it down or not?"I want to tell you this. Cole; people that fought you are giving me hell for supporting you; I always thought you were honest and straight; the minute I find out you are not honest and straight, we part company; if you don't sign this bill, I'll be damned if I don't raise hell." He says, "What does it mean to you, Sam, If I sign it?" "That doesn't matter a damn, that don't make a damn bit of difference, if I came to you on a personal matter and you refused to sign it, that would be a different matter, but you didn't put it up to me that way; you put it up as a matter of right and wrong." I says, "What does it mean to me personally " I says, "It means about $10,t)00 a year, that Is about what it means to me," I says, "but that's got nothing to do with it. I Just want to tell you that you are refusing to sign it for one of two reasons, which one I don't know; you are either refusing to sign it because you don't like Lewis Parker or Smyth or Smith, and you are trying to flay them over the head, and In so doing you are flaying the best friends you ever had, you have lost sight of the fact that you can't beat their brains out without beating our brains out; you are either doing it for that or you are being paid by the Southern railway for not signing it; that's the situation." And I got my hat and walked out of the office. I walked through his private office into the general office; he says, Cole says, "Come back here a minute; come in," he says, "and bring this G? damned railroad bill; I'm just going to sign it to get rid of the damned thing." He signed it and people came out all over the state cussing him, and that's the only thing I ever done with him that caused a good deal of comment. An Alleged Club Incident. We have got a pretty nice club out here, and several of us go out there pretty often and enjoy ourselves, but they are against Blease, and they know I'm for him, and so we never talk politics in the club. Well, one day a fellow blew in from North Carolina; he came in?we insisted on his joining us; of course, he came over; he said, irentiemen, now s pontics in ?ouui Carolina?" "Well," we said, "everything's sorter quiet." "Say," he says, "I hope you peope will beat that damn rascal, Blease, down here." Well, we said, we weren't taking any Interest In politics. He says, "Well you ought to take interest In it;" finally he says? Mr. Porter: You do what you think Is right; I can understand how you feel and your friends, of course, respect your feelings and don't talk politics in the club. Mr. Nichols: That's It exactly. Like a client of mine, he's the head of a mill here that I represent; he was talking to me and he says, "My mill pays you about $2,500 a year retainer, and I want to tell you, if you're going to keep on for Blease like you are, we can't afford to have that sort of a man representing us." I said, "I want to ask you a question now: "Did you employ me to represent your mill?he employed us purely on my account, and I knew that. I said did you employ me on account of politics or because you thought I could represent vou properly?" He said, "We employed you because we thought you could do it better than anybody else." "Well, then," I said, "whenever you get to thinking differently get somebody else." He says, "Well, I can't do that." I says, "Well, then, don't come into my office pollticlng about it." Well, this fellow from North Carolina, Fox, says. "We did everything we could to beat Blease; we never discuss politics in the club. Mr. Nichols is a member of the club and we know he's for him and the balance of us against him; we always fought Blease before and we were never able to beat him, and the only way to beat him is to prove he's done something crooked since he's been governor, and If you know he has. we'd like to have it to beat him with." He says, "Well, I'm glad you mentioned that." He says, "1 know of my own personal knowledge of an instance where he has accepted graft and big graft." Fox says, "I'm triad you mentioned that." He says, "You remember when It came out in the patter that he was going to veto that railroad bill " I says, "Yes," He says, "Well, that meant possibly a milIWiti rlnlliirH to tho rnnrl n rwl amno nt torney in the state had Influence with him and he paid Blea.se $50,000 to sign that bill." I pot up and looked at him, and moved my chair back. I said. "You are just a damned dirty liar." I said, "I'm the only attorney in South Carolina that ever mentioned that matter to he governor, and if you say he received one cent you are just a damned, dirty liar." He knew he was lying and I knew it. He says, "I didn't mean to say that I knew that, hut I heard that." I says. "No, you're lying when you say that." I said "you were saying it, you said, because you knew it to lie a fact of your own personal knowledge, and I'm the only man that talked to him, and I'm the only man that knows, except Mr. Smyth, over there. "He says, "Oh, well, I'm not going to have any difficulty in the club." I says, "Very well. then, we'll go out of the club." He says, "No, we ain't; I didn't mean anything by It; I just heard these things." Capt. Smyth got up and says, "My friend, I don't ; know you, but I can substantiate everything Mr. Nichols says, because I'm a director of this company, and my advice to you would- be to leave this club and not come back again," and that fellow walked out. Mr. Porter: My idea of Governor Please is he's a good fellow; he's like i you and I; he used his own judgment; he's in politics, the same as you and I i in business, and we don't do anything in our line that will interfere with our clients or their patronage, and if we can make money, that's our busines?, i as long as we comply with the law. Now, if there's anything In the world I despise it's somebody trying to down somebody when they are doing the very same thing. Now, personally, I have got the western spirit?everybody is liberal, everybody believes in treating everybody right; they like a good fellow. As to Blease's Habits. Mr. Nichols: My people have always been in politics. I have been in politics, and I have known the governor, and I have gone out and got drunk with him, and although he's the governor, if anybody in South Carolina would walk up and say, "governor, let's take a drink," he would say, "yes sir." Evans is leading the fight against Blease this time, and that kept us from going into partnership. We had checked up our books and were ready to form a partnership, and he switched over against Blease, and I told him, "1 wouldn't form a partnership with you under any circumstances,' so we quit. I was in the office the other day and talking about a young fellow here drinking too much, he says, "Sam, he's tbe biggest sot you ever saw"?ne's tne fellow that ran against Lyon for attorney general?he says, "Let me tell you something, Sam, a man's a damn fool to take a drink before he's forty, and a damn fool after that if he don't do It." Mr. Porter: I like a man that's broad-minded. In our western country we can't accomplish very much without showing that we are right; we overlook a good many faults, and we realize that, in order to do business, everything must.be harmonious, and we have got to show that we are right. Now, that's my personal feeling, that's the way I feel personally, but, at the same time, I realize that I'm In a strange country, and I would like to show you that's the way I feel; and, of course, If you think It worth while, we would be willing to make a satisfactory donation to the expenses of his campagn. Mr. Nichols: Well, I've been In your country a great deal more than you have been in mine, and?I don't know why, but I've taken a peculiar pleasure in being with you. You take your town, a good deal of money's always | used In politics. Now, down here, there's very little; of course, there's some money used, of course, but as a rule, a man runs for office, his personal friends elect him or his personal enemies defeat him?It's a personal matter every time you get in a campaign. Mr. Porter: I admire him for some of the things you have told me, and I want to go on record as doing whatever Is right. Mr. Nichols: The governor will make a report of every pardon that's granted from now on. Cole has got a book, f(ro hundred and some pages, he's granted so many?he calls It his Pardon Book; and In that book he puts the whole record, Just enters the whole thing, he puts down who the pardon Is presented by, who asks for It, and gives the reasons for having granted it; if he refuses it, it don't go in the book?Just those he grants?and in this matter, when the petition comes up, he'll Just put in that we, Mr. Porter And Nichols & Nichols, presented the petition, don't you see? Just let it go down in the record?In other words, the only way I would take the case is with you as associate counsel In the matter, and the record would simply show that Nichols & Nichols, of Spartanburg, and Mr. Porter, of Chicago, asked for the pardon. There's a man here, his brother came to see me, his brother killed a man, and they sent him up. This fellow came to see me, said he believed the fellow was crazy, and they had the doctors to examine Mm?they went to the supreme court with it?and I got some doctors with good reputations to examine him; they knew nothing about his sanity at the time he did the act Well, at any rate, they employed me to make an effort before the governor, and we had over 5,000 names to the petition to the governor; I says, "I won't ask the governor to pardon him. but I'll ask him to commute it to life imprisonment," and among the names was our senator; it was recorded in his pardon book, "Honorable John D. Cleveland and a great many other parties, respected citizens of Spartanburg, noma on/1 oolro/1 hla nnrrlnn nlsn Sena tor Carlisle;" he put that in his record that way, and we got.that through tha^ way. Mr. Porter: Well, I think I understand the situation pretty thoroughly. Mr. Nichols: Here's the situation: They have fought Blease about a good many things he has done, and, of course, they are right about some of them; he has made some . mistakes? any man who does as much as he has he will make mistakes; he has, made mistakes, and they have fought him to the point where he don't care, but he wouldn't do anything that wasn't right, and I wouldn't do anything that wasn't right. Mr. Porter: No, no, and I wouldn't be a party to it if he wasn't. Two Wealthy Prisoners. Mr. Nichols: There are two men In the penitentiary now serving life sentences, one worth about $200,000 and th other and his relatives about $500,000; either one of those men would Rive every cent of it to pet out, because they realize that if Blease isn't elected they'll never get out; they have gone to him with petitions, both of them, and he has refused both of them. He says, "I have pardoned people, turned them out, but you name any man that ever had a cent that I turned out." He says, "I have pardoned men from the pent? tentlnary that never had a suit of citizen's cothes to go home;" he says, "un"under the law we give them a suit of citizen's clothes when they get pardoned, and instance after instance"? who he would call the names?"I have, out of my own pocket, given that man railroad fare; now, can that kind of a man buy a pardon, and if they could, couldn't these two men buy out?" And if we do get this thing through, we have got to take absolutely that base? here's a man that was convicted, he didn't have money to employ a lawyer ?in other words, whatever is done must be done between us. The reason they are fighting Cole they can't handle him. We have had a ring for twenty years?and I have been in it, lot of others have been in it?still that's true. They can't handle Blease, he won't be handled, and that's the trouble, that's why they are fighting him. Mr. Pofter: If you want me to make any contribution to his fund I would lie glad to do It. Mr. Nichols: You just tell your people this, that I think we can get the matter through, if we can agree on it; now, what the terms will be, I'm not In position to say. Mr. Porter: Well, you take your time and see; I think it will be better for you to think the mater over a little bit, but I'll be back in the fall. Mr. Nichols: When I see you in Chicago or New York I'll make you a clean-cut proposition; what we will get him out for; I'll say to you representing these people, "I'll get up this petition, and I'll have it signed by a certain number of people; I'll get it in shape for so much money, that much j to be paid me whether I succeeded or not. Now, if I do succeed, an additional amount will be paid me, and if I don't, that will bo the end of it. That makes it up to me to succeed, and it makes it up to you to pay me that much if I do succeed, but you can tell them this?and anybody In South Carolina will tell you the same thing?I can get it through when nobody else can; there isn't a lawyer in the state that won't tell you the same thing. Mr. Porter: I consider myself fortunate to have met you and taken the matter up with you. Mr. Nichols: It was fortunate for us both?fortunate that the thing turned out as it did. Now, a fellow came to s.?e me named Green. They framed up against the husband to get him out of the way. I represented the man and a lawyer named Simpson? who's dead now?represented the woman. They went into court, and how in the hell we ever did it, I don't know, they sent them up both for life. Simp son, he fooled around finally and got the woman pardoned ;but they refused to pardon the man on the ground that he led the woman Into It They came down to me to represent him In the pardon matter on the ground that I 1-epresented him and thought he was guilty?they came to me with thirty or forty thousand dollars, and they came to me and said they would give me a mortgage on a farm he had up there worth about $20,000, for $5,000, on the contingency that I get him out of the penitentiary. I said, "No, Mr. Green, I won't do it if you'd give me your whole farm I wouldn't do It; I represent people in that section, and they blame me for representing him, but I've got a right to represent my clients, but I haven't got a right to ask my friend, the governor to pardon him for I believe he's right" So they came and employed Wyche, after I refused to take It, they employed Wyche. He refused to take the case on a contingency further than this, he told them he would present the petition for $2,500, and if he got It through they were to pay him $5,000 when he got the man pardoned, he wouldn't get any more. So they paid him the $2,500. Wyche employed this Bob Hannon to go down there with him?he was a Blease man?they went down and talked with Blease, and Blease asked them at once where I was, said "Sam Isn't In town." Blease says, "wait a minute," and he wired me instantly; says, "What do you think of the Green I norHnn ohnul/l If Ha cnrantoH 9M T wlr_ |/U.UVII, ""VUIU -V "W n.u..vvU . ed him back, "I refused to present thia petition to you; this is all I have to say to you," and he refused to pardon him. I'lr tell you frankly, If you had all the money in the country, if I didn't think your man ought to be pardoned, I wouldn't have a thing to do with It, because I had refused both of those fellows that I told you about. Blease knows that I have got his interest at heart, and he knows I'm not going to advise him to do anything that he oughtn't to do. I was talking to father about it the other night, after I left you. Although Blease knows father has been against him, still he has a great respect for him, and I was talking to him about that case, and he says he thought that man oughtn't to have been punished?he felt a great sympathy for that fellow. The fact that this fellow had been convicted in the United States court That's what hurt that fellow, In other words, the verdict of the United States court without that, they couldn't have-convicted him. Mr. Porter: Wes, I think that's true. I know there Isn't one case In a thousand, where the American Bankers' association is behind it, and the Pinkertons and Bums's behind it, that they ever fail. I think probably that's what might have convicted him. On Matters of Reward. Mr. Nichols: Oh, that's what convicted him. There isn't anybody knows anybody else In your county. You can't know two raen on the Jury. In this county it's absolutely impossible to get a jury that I don't know every man on it, or at least ten out of twelve?absolutely impossible to get a Jury that I don't know somebody on the jury. I'll give you an example: A fellow here? this was this last court a't Blackwell, S. C.; I had two cases; they were both murder and I cleared both of them. Now, I represented twenty-eight men since this man has been solicitor; out of the twenty-eight I got verdicts in twentythree of not guilty In each case, and two of them I pleaded guilty of manslaughter; and down at Greer's the other day, Blease went there to make a speech, I saw a fellow that I had never seen before. He spoke to me and I says, "How are you getting on?'.' He says. "I Just want to tell you, old boy, I've been on five cases where you've been the lawyer and you ain't lost none of them, and I want to tell you something else, as long as you get me on the Jury you ain't going to lose none of them." That's Just how far they'll go sometimes for personal reasons. I had one thing to happen to me about six years ago; I was up at Henderson and a kid got broke up there. He was doing a vaudeville stunt in a moving picture show, and he was a pretty wild kid; he got half loaded, run around with the women a J ,1 1 U ? Usv guuu utrui, uuu lit; was ui uivc auu 11c couldn't get out; well, he came to my room and he told me. He said he was from New York; said, "I'm down here down and out, and I always made about $20. a week in the vaudeville show, but I am broke and can't get out of town; I owe a few little debts around here; it'll take about $20 to get me straight, and I Just came down here to ask you if you won't loan me this money?" I says, "You mean to give it to you, don't you?" He says, "No, sir, I mean to lend it to me." I says, "Well, I'll tell you what I'll do; I've got a bunch of friends up here"?about forty friends of mine were there?'You come up here and do the stunt and I'll call them up here in the room." I got ten or twelve of them up there and he got to doing that buck dance I says, "Boys, this fellow needs $20; I'm going to give him $10 of it and I want you to chip In and give him the other $10." They chipped In?it was about $26?and I gave it to him. Well it passed out of my mind. I never thought about it any more and last year I went to a football game; I went to New York and stayed a week and got about half loaded, you know, and I was there in front of a show of some sort and got into some disturbance, and of course, the officer wanted to make a case, and a fellow came out and walked up to the policeman and said something to him; I don't know what it was, but at any rate the policeman said, "A friend of mine told me your name and I won't arrest you: I'll drop it." This kid had recognized me and interceded with the officer for me. I didn't remember him at all. I said, "I'm certainly very much obliged to you; I don't remember you." He says, "You don't remember me?" I says, "No." He says, "About four or five years ago I was in Henderson and you gave me broke money to get back to New York." That boy never had forgotten that thing, but he said, "I recognized you the minute I saw you." Well, I guess he recognized me; the reason he recognized me I was drunk the first time he saw me and I was drunk the last time he saw me. Well, he talked to me a while and says, "Well, Mr. Nichols. I'm doing pretty well now, making $40 a week now. I never will be worth much, but I'm doing pretty well now. I live here in New York and play here In the show"? he was doing that vaudeville stunt? "the minute I saw that woman and heard the disturbance I looked up and recognized you." It never occurred 10 me mai j wouui ever see mui again; I just felt sorry for him. The Red Men are very strong down here? you know the order don't you? A Spartanburg Incident. Mr. Porter: Oh. yes. the Independent Order of Red Men? Mr. Nichols: Tho Improved Order of Red M?n, that's right: well, I'm a Red Man and Cole Is a Red Man, and they have some of the biggest men In the country In It. Rlease went to Cincinnati last convention, was there and Cole went up there, and they got there and wrote it to every paper in the United States that Cole had a fight with a negro In the lobby of the hotel. As a matter of fact he never had a cross word with a negro. Several judges, and one man, I have forgotten who he was. he signed an affidavit that he was there with Governor Blease and he never had a dispute or anything else with a negro even. There's a fellow in town. Guy Morris, a political lieutenant of ours, a wild sort of fellow, made a lot of money gambling around, running gambling rooms; he gets a take-out of the game and made a lot of money out of it. The sheriff had it in for him for political reasons, and he went down and pulled him. Well, Guy came and employed me to represent him. Henrico (?)?a fellow connected with the newspaper here?he came up and wanted to know about it. He says, "Henrico, don't put this thing ii the paper. Mr. Morris has got tw< daughters in Converse college tha graduate next year; his people stan< well." "I says, now you can't pub llsh anything like that" I says, "Guj Isn't convicted yet and I don't thin! he will be. I says "you better gc slow, because If they turn him loose you have done him a great injustice.' He says, "All right, Mr. Nichols, 1 won't put it in, if you think that" 1 says, "I think that's best; don't take snapjudgment until they prove him guilty. So Hannan, the editor, called me up and told me he was going to put it in. I says, "All right Hannan, if you're going to put it in, it's all right; Henrico told you what I told him about it?" He says, "Yes." Well, I says, "I want to tell you this, 11 you put that thing in, if Guy's convicted, you'll never hear anything further about it but if you put it in and he's not convicted, he'll beat hell out of you." Well, we went ahead the jury acquitted him in about ten minutes. Guy came up to the office, says. "Well, Sam, I want you to go up to the race track with me." "What for?" "I'm going to beat hell out of that editor." and I says, "all right. I'll help you do It;" so we went up and Ouy got a raw hide whipe, and he caught him on the race track and whipped him like you'd whip a dog. That's the only way to treat such fellows as that . Morris told me he went home and says his wife told him "if you don't whip that cur I'll never live with you again." A fellow named Holland (?) who runs the paper with him, pulled his gun, and I pulled my gun and told him, "you keep away, don't you mix in with this thing." Mr. Porter : Well, we all make mistakes, you know, every one knows without instruction what's right and wrong. Mr. Nichols: About this thing?how in the world did you happen to come to my office? Mr. Porter: Well, I couldn't go anywhere else, could I? Mr. Nichols: Well, yes, Til tell you why I asked you that question. If? things had developed as they have developed?if you knew about conditions down here, I wouldn't be surprised; I wouldn't think anything of It, but not knowing about things and since you came here as a stranger without knowing anything except you wanted to spe a lawyer, I couldn't think how you came to come to me. Mr. Porter: I have always made It a point never to do anything unless F know all about the thing. I have always had it pounded into me, always to get the best, and so I made my inquiries with this end in view; and as I was going to your office I asked the cab driver how about Mr. Nichols, Is he a good lawyer? And when he told me, "yes, sir, the best in the state," of course I felt satisfied. Mr. Nichols: If you want a lawyer in San Francisco or Chicago, they have a sign out, and you can take whoever you want, it's different, where people just want a lawyer; but there areoth er Arms you could have gone to in Spartanburg, that absolutely control the business, and the business that the other Arms get is Just an accident Evans, though, couldn't have done you much good, and any of them If they have to get a man out of the penitentiary, they say, "Tou go and associate Sam Nichols now, and we'll help you," and that's the reason I asked you how you happened to come to me. Those people ought to pay you a nice fee; you could have gone to any of the other of those fellows that I mention, they are the best people here, but they are civil lawyers; they hardly ever go into th^ criminal court; In four years' practice there has never been but three capital cases tried that I wasn't associated in. Down to Business. Mr. Porter: I don't want to lose any time or money on this thing; let's get through as quick as we can and gpt it off our hands. As It is a matter that probably can be adjusted very quickly and without very much trouble, I probably won't think of the matter again until I see you. Mr. Nichols: If I take this proposition up for you, I'm going to get up a petition and I'll have about sixteen and have them copied, and I'm going to give them to Sims, to go get up these petitions; he'll get them up. If we started this proposition and I had to quit my business and go around and get them signed, I'd tell you I couldn't do it, but he'll quit his business and go around and get them signed. Mr. Porter: I met him on the street accidentally. I never take anybody's time up unless I Intend to do business. Mr. Nichols: Father has often talked to me about Sims. I says, "Father, I've got Sims sized up better than you have; if Sims could have started out on the same plane I started out on, he never would have done a crooked thing but he had a wife and family, and started out in the practice of law without anything to support them, and he resoted to hings hat he wouldn't otherwise have done?drivn by necessity to do things that he wouldn't otherwise do." If you want to get this man out?if those people want him out, we can get him out, and when I say "we" I mean that?I don't mean Sam Nichols. I want you to go to those people and say?see here, you're notj working for your health, are you? Mr. Porter: No, no, my own health is good, thank you. ' Mr. Nichols: You can say, "I have got the key to the situation, we can get this man out," and I want you to say to them that I swear to you no one else can do it; If they are willing to pay what It's worth to get him out, we can get him out. In other words, you have got the key to the situation, that's the proposition exactly. You control the key to the situation, because nobody else can come to me and get him out, and without me they can't get him out. I don't give a damn if they have got a million dollars, they can't do it, and they can thank you for it?I don't want the credit up there, I want you to take the credit up there; when you go back to those people up there, say to them, "I'll represent you if you are willing to pay me a fee that's reasonable In this matter; I can do you some good; if you are not willing to pay me that fee, get somebody else, and you won't get him out." Here's the proposition, Mr. Porter?as I understand you, unless he's out he don't inherit, is that true Mr. Porter: That's true absolutely. Mr. Nichols: Now, there's the proposition in a nutshell. I know this, I'll tell you frankly, If Cole Blease would write me a letter and ask me if he! should be turned out?whicji he will do?having been convicted like that, and If you are not interested In the proposition, I'll tell him no, and would not turn him out, and he won't get out, and I know this that we can get him out.?that ain't Scotch, that ain't Scotch talking, that's straight goods. Mr. Porter: Your statement, of course, goes a long ways with me. Mr. Nichols: I won't guarantee that I can get him out before the election? I think I can, but I don't guarantee him: but if I represent him I'll guarantee you he will get out; I'll stake my life on that, and I'd like to see anybody else do that much, if there's any body else that can ever get him out. Mr. Porter: That's very good; that's) all I want. Mr. Nichols: I'll tell you what I'll do. Mr. Porter: All right. Mr. Nichols: You come over to the office with me and I'll show you two or three letters from him to show you how we are. Mr. Porter: I'll be glad to; it would not strengthen my opinion any, however, but I'll be glad to. Just for the interest of the thing. Mr. Nichols: Oh, he's a fine fellow. Mr. Porter: From what you say he must be a good fellow. Mr. Nichols: Here's the way he signs, "As ever, Cole." Oh, we've got the situation by the . The fact that you came down here Just like you did ?but you told me it was about three years, and the sheriff told me It was i Ave, of course, that knocked me right > straight off my feet, right at the start, t I don't know anybody that could have 1 come and got me in the matter like - you did it r Mr. Porter: I think I know how to t present the matter to them. > Mr. Nichols: Here's another thing: . When you came Into my office, how did you happen to ask for me; why t didn't you talk to father; he didn't t know a thing in the wortd about it?" > Mr. Porter: I wanted the young 1 man; called for the young man. ' Lawyer C. P. Sims. > Mr. Nichols: Til tell you what 81ms ' can do; if I can't get off he will get off and go up there, and anything he did I would be bound by, becouse I know ; he wouldn't do you or me either; he lpn't as busy as I am, and it might ; i>e that he could get off and go. Til tell you, Mr. Porter, anybody's time is limited who is worth a damn. Mr. Porter: That is a matter we can't afford to overlook? Mr. Nichols: The only thing I know about this case is what you tell me; I don't know who you have got behind you, and I tell you what I wish you'd uu auuui in is case, i ra not represenilng these people at all, and whatever fee you charge In the matter It's your fee. Mr. Porter: Exactly. Mr. Nichols: I'm only associated with you as attorney, and our agreement as between attorneys. Now the question is, if it's to your interest to get a good fee, it's to mine. I can tell them this, if they'll pay you what fee you demand, we can absolutely guarantee it Do you know what I could do I could make Cole Blease write him a letter stating that if Mr. Porter and Mr. Nichols represent them they'll represent them properly, and that's just what he would do; I can get him to do it Mr. Porter: That's fine, line. . Mr. Nichols: There's just one thing about it; it's whether you want to accomplish the thing or whether you don't. I know what I'm talking about Of course, you've got no personal interest in this matter; you're working for dollars and cents. If any other man in the United States asked that man for a pardon he couldn't no more get it than if he wasn't in the United States, and if these people don't believe it they can wire him or write him or anything else. Mr. Porter: I'm not going to be stingy, and when It comes to the showdown, I might take advantage of the situation, and so I want to show you my faith. Of course, I believe with your influence, thi thing will go through all right but it would be better if it could be done before the election. Of course, I want to be liberal about the thing, and if you can do it before the election, I'd be willing for you to have a bonus, and we would then have the thing off our hands. Mr. Nichols: I just want to show you your position?of course, your position is my position, and as far as I'm concerned, if anybody else takes a hand in this thing, they can count me out and you can assure them of that, and that man certainly won't cat out In ten years. If I hadn't liked you, I would have told you to co to heU, because I don't need the money. Now, you are In position Co turn the trick for those people or you are In position to keep them from it. Mr. Porter: Yes, I think that's entirely correct Mr. Nichols: You can tell those people this?co to them with this proposition?whether I co to Chlcaco or don't I can cet this man out or I can make him stay In there. Mr. Porter: The only thine between us Is a question of fee. Mr. Nichols: You can say to them. "I can cet a lawyer down In South Carolina that can cet that thine throueh, and It's up to you; If you don't want to put up that, why, he can't cet out" I want you to put It up to them so that you can set your services paid for and I can cet mine; I'll set the pardon all rlcht Mr. Porter: You can gamble that you and I will never have any trouble about It Blease for 8enatef Mr. Nichols: Whenever they cet hold of a case like this they outfit to be willing to pay for It that is, if they are able to, but I have had cases like that that I haven't got a nickel out of It; but where a man's liberty depends on it, that's a different thing, if he's got the money to pay; what would you give your liberty for ten vears? I can tell you one thing?Cole Blease is going to be elected governor again, I'll tell you that frankly. And I'll tell you another thing?of course, this Is confidential, you know?I'll tell you another thing?Cole Blease Is going to run for senator, and he'll be elected, too?and I'll tell you another thing too?of course, I wouldn't have you say anything about this for anything?you know who's going to be governor? I am; I'm going to be a candidate for It, and I'm going to be elected, too. That's the situation?he's going to run for United States senate, and I'm going to run for governor two years from now, and we're going to get elected, too?no doubt about that. Suppose I'd run for governor? I'd get all the Blease vote and the Parker, and all the factions all around would support me absolutely?against Blease, even. You ask Sims when he comes up here if I can't beat him! I can beat him and he knows it, too. (At this point Mr. Sims arrived, having been telephoned for by Mr. Nichols.) Mr. Nichols: Sims, he wants me to go to Washington?I mean Chicago? and I told him that I didn't know whether I could go or not I told Mr. Porter this?there's no doubt that he's the man?and I told Mr. Porter that there's no doubt that we can get him out Mr. Sims: No, there's no doubt about that at all, you certainly can get hh.i out. Mr. Nichols: I told hlLi this, that we can get him out, that's all there is to it. but I thought maybe your business was so that you could go, whereas I couldn't I told Mr. Porter that we would go into this matter on this Dasia, mai wnaiever ne uoe??wen, I did tell him too, this, that If we don't represent him he certainly won't get out. If they want to get that man out, they'll have to talk to us; if they don't talk to us he won't get out: you can tell them that too and you can tell them that I say so, too. Mr. Sims: These people?you tell them how it is, and that'll be the same as either one of us being there. Mr. Nichols: I can tell them this, that Cole Blease is going to refer it to me, and if I don't advise him to do it, he can't get out, that's all there Is about it, that's exactly the way it stands. Ain't that right Sims? Mr. Sims: That certainly Is; hM-efers everything to you, and he ^n't do anything without your advice. Oh, you can get It all right?no doubt about that. Mr. Nichols: Cole isn't receiving petitions down there until after the election. Of course, if we go down there with a petition and he acts on it, it might make them sore, if he grants our petition, because he Isn't receiving any petitions until after the election. Mr. Porter says this, he says there'll be a bonus if we get this thing right away; now, if there's enough to it, we can get it right away. He's going to the old country, and wants to get it done with. Mr. Sims: I could get out twenty petitions and have a thousand names before you could turn around hardly, and then you could get Landrum and Mr. Law (?) to recommend that he be turned out. $30,000 Guarantee. Mr Nichols: How much would he pay? I can tell you how much I could almost guarantee It for?If they are willing to pay as much as $30,000 I could absolutely guarantee his pardon. Tou know what I could do, don't you. Sims? Mr Sims: Oh hell, sure, you could go down there and say, "I want this (Continued on Fourth page.) - . - ... ***** : ^