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COULD BE REMOVED] THE FRICTION WAS PERSONAL SAYS ASYLUM PHYSICIAN ? - DR. GRIFFIN TESTIFIES Mays His Differences With Dr. Kleanora Saunders Ilegan With Misunderstanding and Could Have Dcen Itemoved by a Frank Talk?Traces <?rowth from Incident to Incident. Following is the otliclal stenographic report of the cross-examination Friday of H. H. Griffin, M. D.f by Eleanora Ik Saunders, M. D., the young woman physician?both being members of the medical staff of the State Hospital for the Insane: i>r. saunders: You never lu\d any disagreement with any of the nurses? Dr. Griflln: When you ask mo that question, they aRk me, as I understand it, among the several Q. And you feel that you have always been agreeable to everybody? A. Never had?1 failed to mention a while ago that little incident in regard to Miss Hertsel. Q. You never had any dispute with any other nurses? A. I do not recall. Q. Nor with any stenographer? A. Not particularly. "Disagreeable." Q. Then you feel that 1 am the only one that has been in the least disagreeable to you? A. Well, yes, ma'am, I think 1 felt that way. Q. You never had any hard feelings toward Miss Allen? A. You mean Miss .Allen, the stenographer? Q. Yes. A. Well, 1 did think at one time that she stirred up a little strife there. Q. How long did it last? A. IIow long did what last? Q. That disturbance with her. A. As far as 1 know, our relations were very pleasant when she left there. Q. Yes. You always gave her die tatlon, though? A. is'o, I gavo the other stenographer dictation sometimes. , Q How long did you discontinue giving her dictation? A. I think I gave her dictation a day or two before she left there. Q. Well, was thero any time when you avoided her and gavo the other girl dictation in preference? A. I. think that I did for a few days. Q. For a few days? A. I might have been for a week or so. 44Professional Courtesy." Q. You think the hospital work is made up of professional courtesy? A. I think it ought to exist. Q. It ought to exist, l?ut it is not the main work? A. Well, no, I think a great deal more can he accomplished if thero is unity, peace and concord in the family. Q. How many hours a day do you come to the hospital? A. Varying from an hour and one-half, possibly some day I wasn't thero more than an hour, and again I have been there three. It depended on when I got there. There was no specific time. Q. Then, when you leave the hospital, you turn your patients over to somebody, whether in tho ward or not? A. Of course, necessarily somebody would assume charge. Q. When things wero going along well, who was supposed to relievo you in your absence, in the 2 4 hours, other than those three? A. I considered that Dr. Thompson relieved mo. The Other 131 Hours. Q. And when he was away who relieved you of the other 21 hours of the day? A. Probably you, if you were there and you wero the only other one there. Q. Well, have you over known I)r. Thompson and I to bo away at the same time? A. If I mistake not, you wore both sick at the same timo. Q. Did you ever make rounds in my department? A. Yes, ma'am. Q. Will you tell me when? A. I made rounds on your department one morning, and I think Miss Irwin will tell you so. Q. Nurse? A. Yes, ma'am. Q. In how many years? A. It is me htbi umo since i nave Deen there. I wan called upon to do bo. You were absent. My recollection la that Dr. Thompson was absent. Q. You feel that you are well paid for your from one to three hours a day work? A. Well, now, that has got nothing to do with this. Q. Have I ever refused to do your duty while you were away, In your absence? A. Not that I know of. 'Not a Great Deal.** Q. When you are on duty, how does our work conflict? A. Not a great deal. Q. How many hours did you say you spent in the hospital a day? A. Now, you havo asked me that question. Q. Oh, well, I am sorry that I repeated it. May I ask you how you spend your time while In the hospital? A. That is another presumption. Q. I want to ask you how mnch we conflict. A. I told you that there hould be no conflictlon. Q. Dr. Griffin A. Yea, ma'am. Q. How much does your work and a i^ll. r ' r , ' my work overlap? A. They ought not to overlap at all. Q. May 1 ask him, then, where ho spends Ills time while at the hospital? A. Well, I spend part of the time in the building and part of the time in the office. Q. May I ask how-long^you*spend in the office? A. That time varies. I Q. What are you doiug while you are there? A. I am attending to my duties as I consider them. l>r. Griffin's Duties. Q. We", will you tell me, for the good of those who do not know, what aro each day's daily duties? A. For myself? Q. Yes. A. I am expected to look over commitment papers for any patient that has been added in the 2 4 hours previous. I am expected to answer correspondence, and very frequently friends or relatives of the family or patients to bo dismissed come up, and those to be sent home on furloughs and various other little tilings of this t^ort. The Chairman: It is done at the general office? Dr. Griffin: It is at the general offico; yes, sir. Dr. Saunders: How long does it take you to mako your ward rounds? A. I do not know. That varies; depends on how many. Q. Give a general average. A. I could not undertake to say. Q. Then your stay in the general office is not long, after all? A. it is not very long. I should say a half an hour, sometimes an hour, sometimes' longer; it depends on the condition. Sometimes I have a bunch of letters and again 1 may not have more than two or thrco. Q. Am I always in the offico when .vmi air merer a. wen, you generally are, I think, part of the time you arc. Q. llow many stenographers, there? A. There are two. Q. Now, do you recall mo ever telling a stenographer not to take your dictation? A. I certainly do. Q. Which one? A. Well, if it is necessary I can tell her. The Chairman: What is the question she asks? Dr. Oritlin: She wants wo to tell the name of the stenographer I refer to. I would rather not bring this lady's name into it. The Chairman: If it is just a question as to stenographer's service there Dr. Oritlin: May I tell her quietly and if she insists on it being made a part of your records then all right? Tho Chairman: You might tel 1 ^ her, and if she wants it to go into the record it is a matter of cross-examination, you know. Dr. Oritlin: Well, she is not there at present. She has been away from there for somo while. You know who I mean. Dr. Saunders: You arc suro of that fact, then? Dr. Oritlin: Well, she assured me of it. T spoke to her day before yesterday and asked her did she remember that incident. That is the way she remembered it, that is tho way I understood her to say. The Chairman: I will state here that if that is a matter of contradic mm yuu win nave io iay me proper foundation by identifying the stenographer in question so the stenographer can testify. I am saying that as a matter of information. Dr. Griffin: I spoke to this lady day before yesterday and asked her if she remembered that incident and that is the way she remembered it. Hetween Individuals. The Chairman: The object hero is to get at the main facts. So far as involving a little controversy between individuals, the committee is not so much interested in that. Wo want to get at the salient facts which make up he crux of the situation out there. Dr. Saunders: You do receive food from the diet kitchen? Dr. Griffin: Yes, ma'am, I do now. Q. How long? A. I think that has been done for some little?I know within the last year or so. I remember your giving me a little list. Don't you recall that? I do not know whether you did that personally or sent it to me as a list of things that could bo gotten? Q. Do you remember in relieving Dr. Thompson you were asked to leavo a list of patients you did not want to receive visitors? A. I do not recall that. Q. You do not deny It's being done? A. Ask that question again. Q. Do you remember being asked to leavo a list of peoplo whom you objected to having visitors? A. No, ma'am, I do not. I remember making a request verbally, though that < hub iiauoni not again be allowed to receive viBitors. I could go on and ' give you my reason, but those things had best not bo spoken of hero. Q. You say you were doing bac- 1 teriologlcal work at one time? A. i Yes, ma'am, the best I could with practically nothing to do it with, i Don't you remember my going over to your department? I Q. You always did what was asked and required? A.' As far as I ) know. As far as it was within my t means. Purchase of Apparatus. Q. When tho first of the labora- < tory apparatus was bought, do you i remember who did it? A. Who did I the work? 1 Q. Who did the buying? A. I was under the impression, Dr. Saunders, 1 that you came into the room when the agent was in there and gave most of the order. Now that is my impression. Q. Yes. A. If I am mistaken Q. Are you sure it was bought through an agent? A. Yes, I certainly remember it. I know I did because I had the agent to take my mechanical stage, tho thing that slides the wall over tho aperture, and he took it at the same time back to Philadelphia to be fixed. Q. May I ask, do you know what company tho apparatus was brought from? A. I think it was bought from Thomas, Arthur or It. Thomas. That is my impression. Negro Male Department. Q. When wo were making ward improvements, did you object to your ward being improved? A. No, ma'am. And I grant you that tho conditions in tho colored male department wore not as I would liked for them to have been. I am sure that I appealed to tho superintendent to have this old man, Perry Stevens, removed. I thought ho was decrepit and altogether incapable. Now I have thought all of tho time that it would he best to have men down in that department, in that dining room, capable men, younger men than we had. 1 do not know what the result would be of having some of those men who are quite vicious coming in contact with women down there. Q. Well, the plan has worked out very well? A. Yes, 1 do not say that there has been any great mistake. I still feel and think, though, that I would rather have a man down thore, because I can have better control of them. It is in my judgment necessarily O- 1)1(1 von nulr *><"( -v . ^ W ?. iiuit V \ / II Cl YO 111(11 ehango made? A. No, ma'am. Q. Will you toll mo when I have been on your wards? A. I heard you say the other day, and I also heard (hat you had visited there one time, in the wards. You would go down in the dining room of that department every day or two. I have seen you down there several times. (J. Did you object to my being down there? A. I would rather?1 felt that when you made visits down there you had assumed charge of it and I was in a way brushed aside; yes, ma'am. Didn't Itoport Incident. Q. Did you object to the superintendent? A. To the superintendent doing so? Q. Did you object to him, did you make complaint to him that 1 had been down there? A. No. (J. When you felt that I had treated you rather unfairly about the diet dinner sent to a sick male nurse, did you ask me not to do so again or did you mention it to me at all? A. I do not think 1 did. Q. Well, don't you' think that might have adjusted it without going to Dr. Tlabcock? A. Well, Dr. Saunders, your attitude had not been friendly to me and 1 knew that you would not receive me in the right spirit. Now, that is the reason why 1 thought the right tiling under the circumstances was for me to go to tho superintendent, that is why 1 did. Q. You remember when that han pcncd? A. I do not remember the year. I n^membor that it was during one of 1) Thompson'H illnesses or either Dr. Thompson was ill or he was off on his vacation. You know ho takes a month vacation every year. I do not know just when it was. Q. Is it my custom to give contrary orders to your nurses? A. No, I have never heard of your doing it. Differences Personal. Q. And you will agreo with mo that when you leave the hospital you leavo it in charge of somebody? A. Yes. I know that Dr. Thompson calls me up nearly every day in regard to some little matter in regard to my department. Q. So you feel that all of our differences have been personal? A.Yes. I feel that they have been differences and that somo of them were misunderstandings, and I think that if we both could have gotten together we probably could have adjusted them. Q. Did I ever report you for them? A. I have heard that you went to I)r. Dabcock soveral times. Q. You have heard, but please say, do you know that I have ever reported you? A. Well, I could not say. I could not answer positively yes or no. Q. Then, after all, the differences were probably as blamable to you as to mev A. I do not know how you feel about It. Q. Don't you think that if wo woro not willing to livo undor tho conditions at that tlmo that one of us ought to have resigned? Would that have been fair? A. I think that would have been a good solution of it. "No Great Tilings." Q. So our differences after all have been personal? A. There havo been ao great things, no ma-am. Q. So our wards are separated, so that wo come in conflict very little? A. There should havo been no conflict at all. Q. It has been but little? A. Not a great deal. But enough to make things unpleasant for mo. Q. Did you feel from your dally visits to the hospital that short time that you were embarrassed by my antagonism? A. I must say that 1 felt rather bad that I should be treated that way. Q. It didn't Interfere with your efficiency In your duties, did It? A. TRY TO SLIP PAST AMERICAN SOLDIERS SEARCH FOR MEXICAN RAIDERS FAILED TO CATCH THEM IfuortA Hand In Said to Havo Gone Across the Border, Intending ti) Make a Detour and Kojoin Kwloral Troops Now Opposed to Villa ?Travelled in Autos. Sharp-eyed United States troopers searched through stunted brush along the sandy plains stretching back from the Rio Grande Thursday for tho Mexicans who started on an automobile expedition from American side of the border Wednesday night with the probable purpose of joining Federal forces south of the border or harassing the rebel garrison at Juarez. The alarm reached Gen. Scott, In command at Fort Bliss about 10 o'clock Thursday night. Ranchers along tho road near Ysleta telephoned into tho city to find out the causo Tor the appearance of an unusual number of automobiles some of which were covered with canvas and apparently carried boxes. Counts of the number of these var lod irora 10 to 50, but inquiry at Ysleta, Texas, Indicated that there wore more than a hundred. Mrs Mary O'Neil, telepliono operator at Ysleta, saw six of them, seemingly laden with boxes under their canvascovers, turned toward the river. They were without lights and she thought that the machines disappeared in ' some of the numerous corrals in Yslota and were there unloaded. The only soldier so far to have seen any of the alleged lluorta re- } omits was Corporal Kauffman of troop A, 15th cavalry, lie was sta- ( tioned at a village each of Ysleta and when the alarm sounded he was (lis- ' patched to Ysleta to guide other t troops hurrying to that point. He s arrived ahead of tho reinforcements t and lay In a ditch from which he 1 says he saw the detachments of about ? I men each make a rush toward the < river. All night the Americans searched ( along tho Rio Grande but did not catch sight of their quarry. To all j appearances they had escaped. Ac- j cording to Mrs. O'Neil strange Mexi- ( 4 onus had been collecting since Tuos- ( day. They came in small groups and j were reticent about their business, i Refucrees ;i re not iinpninmnn ? ....V M.ivwiiiiuvill 111 Llllrt > part of the country, but the number was unusual. I Hon oral Francisco Villa, command- 1 ing the robol forces, received an in- i timation of tbe situation at Ysleta i and sent small detachments oast \ along the Mexican bank of the river to capture 10 men, but six of theso < proved to be harmless peons and the other four were hold for further investigation. Villa during tho night sent out reinforcements and as they are mounted ho said Thursday that they should not havo great difficulty catching up with tho dismounted recruits. Oeneial Villa said ho hoped that tho recruits got across tho river for if tho Americans captured them they would only bo imprisoned while he could shoot them. Tho movements of the automobiles constitute one of of tho mysteries of the night. Every road into El Paso was watched after tho alarm but no prisoners were taken, although several persons insisted that thero were many machines and that most of them carried armed men. There is direct evidence of only thoso seen by Mrs. O'Neil. In tho adobo hut which formed part of tho corral at Ysleta, American troops found a largo stock of saddles which appeared nearly now. To one of the saddles was attached a box full I of fuses. Theae subbested that the ( f Well,if I asked the stenographer to t take my letters and you toll her not J to do It, It would have Interfered 1 with mo. Q. You are suro that that oc- t curred? A. That Is what she said, i She told mo that. 1 Once in Nino Years. t r? tr^i.r ? ->' > 1 ^c. ..wyt nuvu uiu Liiiit nappen7 A That happened only onco In nlno ( years, most ten. Q. Tho differences havo been per- * sonal? A. Doctor, there has never y been any great thing, but enough to make It disagreeable and unpleasant. * Q. And after all, you have carried '( on your ward work as you like It and I havo carried on my ward work as I like It? A. Yes. Now, Dr. Saun- " ders, I will say this, If you had not r been, as I said, unpleasant and a lit- 1 tie discourteous to me and If you had r not gone beyond your bounds In go- c lng over to another department, you t would not have a better friend than c myself, and there would have been no friction. Understand, I do not t claim that I do not make any mis- I takes. I know I have been guilty of I many Indiscretions In many ways, but t I have done tho best that I knew how. I Q. But I have not complain- f ed ? A. You askod me that j question a while ago and I think that c I answered it; yes, ma'am. < NURSES PAY TRIBTUE APPKAL TO TIIK HONOR OV ALL GALLANT GKNTLKMKN. Issue Statomont {living Their Opinion of Dr. Saunders am An ANylain Official and an a Woman. Tho following Ih a statement of a resolution passed Friday by tho nurses at tho State Hospital for the Insane: Nurses of the Stato Hospital for tho Insane at a meeting held this day pasaed a resolution asking Tho State to publish the following, so that the people of South Carolina might know just how they feel toward Dr. Saunders. (Signed) Margaret I). Barnes, Jessie IV Klerk ley, Margaret Vera Parnoll, Rebecca Sharp, Lena Pound, Carrie K. Watson, Kate Carter, Ollva Busbeo, Mattie Simpson, Cora Workman, Fannie Parrott, Margarlo Parrott, Myrtle McLano, Carrie Bookman, Lizzie Watson, Annlo Ferguson, Alma Doubley, Elva Youngblood, 1011a Price lOdlth Fasloy, W. K. Steele, M. B. stack, Annie Head, Maud Queen, Ruth Love, Enuna Blakely, Neallo Barefoot, Cora Leo Cornell, Natalie Bailey, Marie Long, Ella Roof, Inez Hoguo, Eva Idelle Cause, Carrie Belle Strlcklen, Kate Hope, Emily Rabon, Bessie Smith, Virginia Bickley, Ernestine Fuller, Emily Driggers, Lizzie Taylor, Bertlin M'lvnu ?> ' . .i.jnr, UUI.IIUI A DI'll, I'OFil Smith, Addle Love, Mamlo Duncan, Mary bavin, llasslo (irahani, Mamlo A. Corley, Kato Tldwcll, Marian Smith, Kosa Don Weitnorts. Columbia, February 1 3. Statoiiiont of Nurses, What the nurses of the State hos>ital have to say about Dr. K;iurt<lors: Wo are a sad and gloomy body of Hirsos today at tho State hospital, rhe shadow of an impending sorrow md wrong has crept into our mist, ind we go to work with little zest and lark forebodings. Wo have been strongly optimistic ip to the present time, beliving that lie good men of our State would ibility and noblo womanhood would itand by tho riglit and that truth, jo recognized and strenuously uphold igainst unjust accusers and misunlerstandings. We feel that we, who come in daily contact with Dr. Saunders and know very phase of her life here, from thejoyful and hearty entering into our ileasures and pastimes as friend, 'ompanion, teacher, down to the sol-J mn and strenuous duties of extreme llness and suffering, have a deeper nsight. into the heart and mind of the .voman than those who have only a -light acquaintance, or even a per-J ect acquaintance with her outside of ler work. 'Tin in a woman's lifcAork that her true character and real kvorth are seen and felt to best advantage. With one accord tho nurses of the State hospital wish to say to the pubic that we consider Dr. Saunders tho Mini in our unueriaKings here. Without her our inspiration would bo *ono. She holds up to us, in her own ifo, In ovory step slio takes here, an example of what a woman can accomplish for the good of hor State, for jcr work hero among these patients md nurses extends into homes in ?very corner of this State of ours, tier influence is far-reaching, and :hero is nothing but good in that influence. Wo know that she has done nothing wrong and are sorely grieved that sho should ho misjudged. I Most of us are young girls who dedro to hold to the belief in the chiv\lry of our Southern men, as our mothers did before us, when it comes to the question of wronging a noble, pure-hearted, true-hearted woman, in ier profession or in any other way, ind wo sincerely hope that the men A'ho are ruling this State will prove ihemselves to bo the gallant, men that 'heir fathers nnH wrom.1 c..n. ? ..> > ni uuiii aiuri n WtTIl joforo them In such points of honor, hat they will right about face and ;ivo the decision that is t*he only Just ind honorable one, not to raise a linger against the work of I)r. Saunders n this institution. I Dr. Saunders is in every sense of he word a gontlewoman. Her quick uul tender sympathy for her patients s discernible to all who come in conact with her here. She is the same woman always, no matter what her >wn sorrows and grievances may ho, lispensing cheorfulness and pleasant, cindly interest to every one with vhom sho comes in contact each day. We, the nurses or this institution, is a body, appeal to the mfcn of this Uate, who are sitting in judgment on >ur worthy friend, not to remove her rom our midst. ecrultB, if euch they really wore, lad in mind the deHtruction of the allroad south of Juarez in order to lelay the movement of additional roops south for the impending attack >n Torreon. American cavalry officers bolieved hat one part of the expedition's plans nvolved the capture of a corral of lorses at Ysleta about a mile from he Rio Grande and rush them into dexlco. It appeared this miscarried, or the rush to the other side, as re>orted by citizens of Ysleta, was precipitated before many of the horses could be obtained. 1 i I , 2 <" ANOTHER REGENT HEARD j I>It. HKTLKMKYKK TESTIFIES RB* FOItK COMMITTEE. Hays lie IlCKftrdwl I?r. Rahcock m tb* 2 Equal of the Hoard of Ilrgento U Authority Over the Institution. Dr. Eleanor B. Saunders, the lady physician on the Asylum staff, whom Superintendent J. W. Habcock is backing up, and whom the majority ?< of the regents hold responsible for the friction which they state would have ended among tho medical staff had Dr. Habcock dismissed her, was t not allowed to have a stenographer u present during tho executive meeting of tho regents in December when Got. Hlease was present with his prlvato ' Secretary, Col. John K. Aull, who k Is a stenographer, and Mrs. Bessie l Sanders was present also as a stenog- > rapher, according to the cross-exami- L nation of Dr. W. L. Settlemeyer, one of tho regents, Thursday afternoon by Dr. Saunders. This was tho meeting at which complaints of certain members of the medical staff against Dr. Saundert j w?ro taken by the regents, and her father, Mr. (). I,. Saunders, was not allowed to be present, it has been testified to, and resolutions condemning her for interference wero passed by the regents. Dr. Settloineyer went on the board of regents last April, succeeding Mr. Fred H. Dominick, and ho stated that in selecting persons for the vacancies filled by tho board duly 1, he voted for those ho thought best fitted for tho positions, land that there was no previous underI standing among any of tho regents as to who were to bo elected. Corroborating tho testimony of Chairman Oarouthers, Dr. Sottlemeyer was of tho opinion that tho trouble at the asylum came from tho friction between members of tho medical staff and tho complaint by certain subordinates that Dr. Saunders was infringing on their duties and rights, lie spoke highly of tho work and efficiency of Dr. Saunders and stated that he had inspected her work, that of tho white women, only twice and found everything in fine shape. Personally, lie stated, lie knew no charges against Dr. Saunders and those made by tho other members of tho medical staff wero only general. i Under questioning from Dr. Hab! cock, Dr. Settlemeyer stated that he thought it was the duty of tho male doctors to lend every assistance in their power to tho female doctors; that tho profession was very arduous, and that he considered from a question of ethics that all of the male doctors at the asylum should co-operate with Dr. Saunders in every way possible. He praised both her and tho work she was doing highly, said there was no chargo regarding her moral : character, and stated that ho and Dr. Habcock had gotten on well together, lie did not consider Dr. Habcock a subordinate, but the equal of the regents in authority, and said ho thought Dr. Habcock ought to hare come to the regents with the whole matter and the trouble might have been avoided. The witness, in roply to a question from Dr. Saunders, said that ho did not know why Representative O. L?. Saunders had not remained when the regents went into executlvo session to hear tho complaints against his daughter, and certainly, ho said, he had no objection to his remaining. He said ho did not know why Mr. A. M. Deal, tho stenographer for Dr. Saunders, was not allowed to remain at tho meeting and why Col. John K. A nil and Mrs. Sanders stayed, except that Mrs. Sanders, ho thought, had been Invited to come as tho stenographer for tho board. Just why tho lady physician under Investigation was not allowed to have her stenographer present, ho said, ho could not explain, and did not know. He stated ho did not hear Gov. Rlease suggest to Mr. Deal that he leavo after it was stated tho board was going into executive session. Col. John K. Aull brought in the minutes of tho executlvo meeting of tho board of regents on December 12, and reading from them Representative Stevenson asked Dr. Settlemeyer if tho regents wore trying to oust Dr. Saunders because sho was not a Hleaaelte. The witness denied that politics had anything to do with the matter, or that they had over been discussed by the regents at any of their meetings. Dr. Settlemoyor had stated that Drs. Taylor and Rabcock, Messrs. Rlvens and Somerset constituted a committee of tho rogents to revise the rules under which the regents were working and to present them to the general assembly for their approval, as required by the Act. Dr. Rabcock Immediately arose and said it waa a r~ tho first time ho had over heard that he was a member of any such committee. ? Meets Serious Accident, C. B. Llndler of Irmo met with & serious accident Monday. While he wan winding up a beef preparatory to dressing it for market, one of the levers of the windlass broke, causing it to revolve rapidly and the other end of the lever struck Mr. Llndler a severe blow on the heed, knocking ' him senseless.