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through congress. He has printed long table* to prove that when the entire world, except England, was attempting to control the price of silver by legislation, they succeeded In keeping the legal prioe within five cents on the dollar of tho market or commercial prioe, and that generally the variation between the market price and the legal price was only about two points. "I have shown that a variation of one quarter of one point has thus far been sufficient to drive the dearer metal from every country in the world. But suppose we admit that by the concerted action of these countries, including all Europe, except England, they did prevent, with the conditions that existed in those days, a variation of more than two points between the legal and commercial ratio, that does not help Mr. Harvey ir. this debate In the least. That does not tend to show that tho United States government alone with the entire civilized world refusing free coinage of > ?I W.. .l?y,?.nAn Kafmaan miver nuu wuuu cue uiuuiruv.D uwt?wwu the commercial ratio and the legal ratio is 16 points, can restore the old ratios It proves that if the combined action of the civilized world, except Great Britain, with the half civilized nations?all that have silver working to help them?could sot maintain a parity between the legal and commercial ratios when the production of gold and 6ilver were nearly the eame, now when the production of silver has increased .wice<as fast as that of gold it is folly to claim that this nation alone can restore that old ratio. "Mr. Harvey admits as much when he provides for cutting down the size of the gold dollar. He has not had the hurdlhood to claim that the United Stacos alone can restore the old ratio. I think he does not desire to have any 6uch thing occur. Ho ays reduce the size of the gold dollar? tells us that the gold dollar has been constantly advancing in price, and that the liver dollar has remained stationary. He says over and over again that an ouuee of liver will exohango for as much of human productions today as it ever would. Now, my proposition is that gold has re malned nearly stationary in price sinoe 1873, and that silver has fallen in price in aocoruauce wim me green inn ui ou and demand." Harvey began on taking the floor by saying: "Tho table on production of silver for the world shows the world's production in 1S6J to have been $4J, 800,000, and that the production increased each year till 1871}, twelve years later, when it was $65,250,000 Here was an increase of 64 per cent. In twelve years in the production of silver. Now if you are right, why did not this increase break down the price of silver from lh61 1873? And before you answer I call your attention to the twelve years, 1872 to 1684, when tho increase is 63 per cent., 1 per cent, less than the previous twelve years, during which ti no the price of silver had fallen 17 per cent." Horr said he would take time to think over that question, and Harvey continued: "Mr. Horr challenged me to show where any dollars were coined outside of the Pniludelphla mint. 1 did that. Now I want to say to Mr. Horr, while disputing all that he has said, chat the ilver derived from gold in refining gold at the mints was not coined into dollars, but was coined into fractional silver. Suppose a man in Nevada had a lot of silver bullion and wauled it coined in those years into silver coin. Now 2 or 3 per cent, ptemium for silver would be no inducement to that man to ship that bullion to London?that is whero this premium was; it wasn't here nor in New York. The freight and insurance and C'JLprUNSBge nuuiu IUU1C VUUIl wuouiuv that 2 or 8 pur cent., not to speak of bis being out ot the use of his money in the meantime. Hence he would take it to the United States mint und have it coined into money that he could use immediately." Resuming the matter of credits Harvey said: "To say there is $4.800,000,00J deposited in the banks is to say at the same time the banks are drawing interest on $8 300,000,U'.?b of it. It works this way: _A ueposits $lo,000 in a bank, B borrows the ?10,00j from the bank, but does not take the money; it is placed to his credit. Now the ?10,00J has swollen to $l'0.000 on deposit. The $10,000 is still in the bunk. C comes in an i borrows it, and places it Co his credit. Now there is $30,000 on deposit. Interest is being paid on *30,0J0 of it. A has $10,000 to his credit, the capital in his business, on which he is p tying no interest. Band C have each ?10,000 to their credit as capital in their business, and they are both paying interest." Horr took the fl-or with the remark that he wouid discuss cnat later in ns regular order" ami proceeded: "It is all idle talk, Brother Harvey, about 6ilver costing: ?2 an ounce. To aid to the cost of producing au article nil the money that has been lost in mining speculations and gambling is too ridulous to announce as an economic proposition. There are mines in the United States that can produce silver, and save money, at 15 cents an ounce?large mines that are doing thut very thing tolay." H?- then quoted M. L. Seudder, who, naming the mines and having seen the books, said silver was produced in one mine at a fraction over 13 cents and in another at 24 cents an ounce. Harvey rejoined: "What Mr. Horr has said about the cost of producing silver ho could have said with a great deal more force about the cost of producing golu. Gold, dollar for dollar, cos's a great deal less than silver does." He then read from Del Mar on the History of Money: "Apart from other considerations there can be but little doubt that the average cost of producing a pound of silver, from the beginning of the world to the present time, has been far greater than that of producing u pound ot gold." He then told of the uncertainties of s Iver mining?how you never know Just "where you are at," as it were; how we all know that of 100 of our friends who may go into silver mining, ninety-nine oorne back "broke." Ho said that the mines continued to produce because men would gamble?risk their money on the hope of making a fortune suddenly, and because a large per cent, of the product of th. mines is gold. Only three or four silver mines are loft in the United States that are paying. To Scudder's statements ho replied by declaring that Scudder was a fraud, who was sent out to Colorado to defame his own country, the willing servant of the Rational Banking association. Horr denied that it cost as much to get A pound of silver as a pound of gold. It had not been done for many thousand years. Del Mar would show the separation in value from 4 to 1 down. "The gap has always been widening and silver has always been getting cheaper. So has gold." He then took up the question of the effect of demonetization on the farmer: "Brother Harvey, In Monday's debate stated that owing to the resumption of specie payments from 1873 to 1879 the liver legislation of 1873 did not affect prices very much until 1879. To measure the effect of 6ilver legislation, then, upon the farmer I will compare the value of their crops before and since 1879. I will oompare tho iive years from 1875 to 1879 With the five years from 1890 to 1894. I will use tbe home value of the orop, or the value of the same to the farmers, and begin with the largest and most lmportant crop of the land, a crop which is worth more to tho producers than anyother two. 1 refer to corn. In the five years, 1875-1879, there was raisod in the United Stares an average annual crop of 1,176,715,000 bushels, for the five years a total of $3,533 22 ',183 in curre icy. This is an average oi 36 8 cents a bushel in currency or 85 cents iu gold. In 1890 to 1894 they were raising annually on an average 1,612,170.837 bushel with a total value of $1,379 364,098 for the live years, which is 42 1 cents per bushel. Here is an advance in gold of 7.1 cents a bushel between the two years." Harvey replied: "As to corn. (See statistical abstract, page 284) For 1873 we produced in tho United States 1,002,?"> I L.l 1 U7.. kail * i uu*iiui9 ui uuru. VMS,** ? population of 40,596,000 In 1894 the United States produced 1,212.770,053 bushels, wi n a peculation of 08,275,000. For 1872, 24>i bushels per capita; for 1894, 17% bushels per capita. Seven bushels less per capita in 1894 than In 1872. "Tuke it another way. The number of farm animnls (corn-eating animals) In the United States for the years 1872 and 1895 is shown by the same statistic il abstract, pages 295 and 291, and by taking the corn crop for tueso two years, as shown on page 284, we find that there were ten bushels of corn to each animal for the year 1872, and only 7% f?r each animal for 1894." The uses ot corn had also vastly multiplied in the intervening years. Horr then proceeded with the value of farm products: "In 1875 to 1879 the nation raised each year an average crop of 871,787 76 bushels of oats; they were worth during those five years $5 835,065 04, or 31% cents per bushel in currency, or 29.8 cents in gold. In 1890 to 1895 the average annual oat crop was 644,788.355 bushels, with a total value for those five years of $1,066,207,376, or 34 4 cents a bushel in gold. These figures show that the greatest cereals have not been do creased la price by the legislation of 1873 Silver has been constantly going down, corn and oats are higher in gold value than they were in the five years previous to 1879. "I will now refer to wheat. The price of wheat was depresso.l because it was so largely exported. The value of the other grain was maintained, yes advanced, bocause corn and oats are mainly marketed upon the farms upon which they are raised. Let us now strike a balance for these great cereals in the United States. The United States from 1875 to 1879 producjd of corn, oats and wheat an annual averago of 2,111,53).219 bushels, with an annual averago value in currency of 4G 7 cents a bushel, or 44 4 cents in gold. From 189J to 1891 they raised an average crop of 2.723,6J7,t20, with an average value of 44 4 cents a bushel. This is exactly the same as the gold average for the years before the silver legislation; before, according to Brother Harvey, the effect began to bo felt in the prices of the United States." Harvey replied by stating that a farmer in Mexico sells wheat in London at 11.25 per bushel in silver and pays $1.25 of debt. We sell our wheat at London at 65 cents, and can pay no more than 65 cents worth of dobt with it. He then Baid that the question of the amount of money needed in this country was an important question and floured it at $4, 800,000,000. Thi9 was primary money. He ridiculed the conflienoe idea. Horrtook up the statement About the Mexican farmer and his wheat. He said the Mexican who sold his wheat got Mexican money. The American got American money. The latter could go to Monterey and depositing the dollars he got for his wheat get just twice as many Mexican dollars therefor. Harvey objected as to the American tarmor that he could not pay so much debt with the money he got and Horr said he would oome to that later. He said: 'Tn 1S73, when this act passed, calicoes averaged i\lA cents a yard. The farmer can buy it now for 5X oents, cheapened not by cuttiug in two tfye measure of Value, for we have the some measure of value we had then, but cheapened by the great law of cheaper production. A reaper which then cost $170 can be bought today for $70. A mower which cost $90 then can be bought now for $45, "?and so on.,"riilvor has been cheapened in precisely the same way. E>o have Iron, copper, lead, aluminium and eveiv other leading commercial article." Harvey sal,I: "You may cheapen a thing with reference to the time required to produce it, but if the man that handles the machinery that does it does not get enough for the work to hold hiin up as a responsible citizen in the community, wherein does your cheapening process help him any?" Horr had not mentioned the property most In demand in the world?money. All these things Horr had enumerated would only bring half as much money. Legislation had been in the interest of men owning money. Horr then put in a table giving the prices of nine agrioultural products, including wheat and cotton, prepared by the agricultural department, showing that from 187i>-9 to 189J-4 the prioes had not declined. Horr further proceeded to quote statistics to show the increase of wealth in I ho United States between the years In consideration. Harvey replied: "Ho said that we had increased in wealth. Nobody disputes that. Now does our increase in wealth go to show that my proposition was not true that the owners of money and securities are exchanging their property and absorbing yours?" Horr then went back to the question asked by Harvey as to why the increase of the production of silver from $HJ,8JJ,00J in lbbO, to f6e,35'i.0J0 in 1873 had not affected t he price, while a slightly less increase from I8i2 to 1884 had caused the price to fall 17 per cent. He said: "The reason why silver did not fall between 186J and 1873 was because of the enormous demand for it In the Orieut. Mulhall (page 8l?9) gives * - 1 * - -* M t ^ tne imports to muia biudd iruui iow iu 1870 ut fo'W.OOO.OvX), while from 1870 to 1880 she cook only f25o,000,U00. The entire production of silver from 180J to 1870 was <500,000,000, and was utterly absorbed by India alone, while the production from 1870 to 1880 was 1655,000,000 more than India absorbod." He said the demand for silver had not decreased since demonetization and to prove it said we alone had coined fdoo, 000,000 since 1873. In reply to the Sauerbeck table he said It was made up for England "a country where nobody olaims, who knows anything about it, that the laboring men have the comforts of life that they have here In the United States." Harvey closed the day's debate with a philllppic against the money power whloh, he said, was dominating the world. He said: "We are making in the United States today the last stand of freemen in the civilization of the world. That same money lending influenoe arose two thousand years ago and struck down civilization." EIGHTH DAY. Tho two disputants In the silver debate In beginning the ci jhth day's discussion showed an inclination to "get together" in proposition and reply, and instead of Harvey discussiug one thliig while Horr was discussing another their argument was confined more closely to the same phase of the question. At the com men cement of the session Horr had the floor. Ho stated that "when you take all the human productions together with the great product known as human labor. t?r\\A hoe nnf ill V.titlM ciriftl* 1873, and when measured In human lull it has depreciated; that after twenty years under a gold standard in this country the farmer can purchase with the products of his farm more of the things whicn he needs to buy today, than he could in 1873 More than that. T state that when the entlro products of toe farm are taken into account they will bring as much money of final redcinp tion as they would have brought In 1873 " Ho then Introduced as part of his oase the table compiled for the llnance committee of the United States senate under the direction of Carroll D Wright, national commissioner of labor The table shows the cost oi several classes of products, the avi .ge wages of men who worked at all k.nds of labor, from up to 1890, and is computed on the plan of starting in 18<. with 100 as the basis. This table gives the average of all prices as follows: 1861. 100; lb65, 210 8; 1870, 142 3; 1875, 127 6; 1880, 106.9; 1SS5, 93; 189J, 92 3 Average of wages: 186 MO; 1861. 143 1; 1870,162 2; 1875.158 4; 1880, 141 5; lb85. 150.7; 1890,168 9. Purchasing power of wages: I860. 100; 1865. 66; 187-1. 114 1; 1875, 124.1; 188), 132.3; 1865. 162; 1&90, 172 1 Proceeding to argue Iroin these llgures Horr said: "Yuu will uoilce that in 1865 the prices were nominally high on account of cheir being given in the cheap money used in this country at that time In 1866 the greenback, in which we w.-re measuring values, was worth only 49% cents on the dollar. All prices had advanced when named in paper money to 216 8. Wages had advanced to 143 1 per cent., but owing to the unusual advance in the price of products and of wages the purchasing power of wages was only 66 We resumed spocle payments in 1879; by that time the lii^h prices had fallen off ; that is the nominal prices, because the measure in which they had been valued hud b un advancing ail the while on account of the puper money which wo were using as the ineusure constantly appreciating in value until it finally roached par w ith gold. "At that time prices as compared with I860 were as 101 9 to 100, and wages were us HI 5 to 10.1, showing tnat the wageearners received much better pay than they received in 1860. Bur. the purchas ing power of wages was 131.3 Instead of loo, Labor was better paid and mon enjoyed the necos a ies und comforts of life to nn enormously greater degree, notwithstanding silver ha 1 at that time declined from 100 to 84 7. In 1&7J the average of all prices was 142 3; wages 162.2, and the purchasing power of greenbacks was 114 1. In 189J prices were 92.3, wages 158 9 and their purchasing power in gold 172 1, showing that tho wage earner for his day's work got one and nearly threefourth times as much of the things he needed in 1?9J us he oould have got in I860." Burr then referred to a table presented by Harvey, compiled by Sauorbcok for a London socio y of statisticians. . This table s a owed the prices of forty-live articles in London, including silver, and in do out an average decrease from 1873 87 to 1885 94 of about 12 per cent. Horr said Hie seuaio finance cumin o tee b ised the table no huu quoted 011 226 articles used iu tho United Stains. He said he would print it* part ni ins romarKsn ust ui six 7 .ive 01 thu articles used in tho senate comniittee's table. Among them are the following: Beans, bread, butter, coffee, fish, lnrd, pork, beof, mutton, sugar, potatoes, cotton, woolen and cotton cloths, carpets, hides, leather, coal, iron, copper, lead, nails, knives, saws, 6cythes, shovels, brick, silver, lumber, chairs, tab.es, soap and flour. Horr said it was better to select data from the United States than England. What they were after was to nud out how this law (demonetization) affected the people here, and what would be the effect of fret* silvor here. Harvey took up the debate by quoting from Horr that the average price of wheat lrom 1ST6 to 1879 was 99 8 cents a bushel, and mat corn, oats and wheat brought as much gold in the Ave years past as they brought in tho five years previous to 1879. Harvey road from the same table quoted by Horr showing the prices for the years 1899 94 inclusive, which averaged 66 6 cents per bushel for wheat. He then defended the Sauerbeck table, saying: "It shows the decline in prices of all those articles that seek the world's markets, such u3 our wheat and our cotton. The London price of wheat uffects the price of our wheat on the Caicago market." Of the senate committee table Harvey said Its compilers were "not free from a desire to make as good a showing as th?y possibly couid for prices in the United States. When it is known that Edward Atkinson was one of the men who assisted in making it one can judgo of the bias that enters into it." The senate report was made in lb91, when it was supposed prices had touchod their lowest point, and yet it ahowd a decline in prices below those of 1872 of 80 per cent., and below 186 > of 8 percent. He then submitted a table, comparing those of the senate committee, Sauerbeck and Soetbeer, showing a decline in prices between 1872 and 1891 from 138 8 to 92 2 by the senate report; from 199 to 72 by Sauerbeck, und from 135 62 to 1< 9 19 by Soet uutsr. Harvey added: "We thus see by all of these tables tlmt prices are lower than In 1860. These tables all prove the enormou9 purchasing power of money when exchanged tor property, and the small amount of money property will buy when exchanged for money " R-forring to Horr's "unit of human toll," Harvey then quoted Horr, replying In the New York Tribune to a correspondent who suggested that a day's work be called a unit oI measure, and that it bo called a dollar. Horr was quoted as replying that the Idea was "so .bsur.1 that I can hardly treat it soberly." Harvey said tho same reply would do for Horr's idea. In conclusion Harvey said: "Th gold standard men are constantly poin i lg to the gold dollar as being worth 100 cents as measured in itself. It is a self-evident proposition, us measured In itself it is worthJOO cents." Korrw^yLJiar'vey had not quote I the Tribune reply*HftirIy, only giving part thereof. He saUT^e was rep.ytng to a man who did not beilWe *n either gold or silver as money, but\in "flat" money? the old greenback Idea.^What he (Horr) wrote about his correspondent's theories being absurd wai not In feference to his S I measure of value, but Co his whole scheme ? fl ?t money Here Horr charged Harv y with being anarchistic and socialistic, H irvey Indignantly repudiated the charge Horr then took up the subject of banks, prefacing it it with the declaration that no country in the world had been is prosperous as the United S ales since 1873 Banks, he said, when well organized, were a blessing to every community in which ihey were located. By their aid a dollar did more than twenty dollars used to do. By their aid exch inges were made with t.ie use of vory little money. I<nss tnuit five pur cent, of exchanges in civilized countries was made with money He bud S;en that fact established in the New York 'Hearing House. Harvey In replying referred to his estimate of the normal supply of money (:4.800,000,000) needed in the United Slates, and now to show the difference between "having the money in existence und having tno banks supply It." he pre6entea a table of failures (Dun & Co.'.-) showing the number p.:r year and amount of liabilities from 1857 to 1804 inclusive. Oi the table he said: "It shows that during the years of the war, wnen there was plenty of money, making about $40 per capita, the number of business failures was roducod to a minimum. See how the contraction oi the currency, beginning in 1856. increased the failures. Follow it along down the years to 18J1. and note its ravages as deinonecz ition and bank were substituted for real monoy. Notice credit, w ith their terrible tax on the people, tho failures prior to 18;3a, W.ien bank credit was supplying tne people with money. Look at its terrible ravages in the last ten years; 115,000 business concerns have gone into bankruptcy. I du not mean to say that all these allures are to be attributed to this cause, but 1 do mean to say thut the credit system of money, with Its tax of *2 H),OOJ,l>UO annually, will account for every dollar involved in those fa lures." Pausing long enough to introduce a* part of the dicussion a table on pages 186 to 194. American Statistical association publication, vol. II, date 189J-91, giving the total business population of the United states and the total number of business firms dropping out of business, Harvey gave figures showing the number of railways, Ju y 20, 1895, in the hands of receivers, the increase of the number of tenant farmers between 1880 and 1890 and said that in 188.) 25 82 per cunt, and in 1891 31 13 per cent, of the farms were cultivated by tenants; also a census bulletin giving the number of tenant families in New York city and immediately surrounding municipalities at 81 51 per cent, and this he charged to uic financial legislation he was opposing. Horr returned to the bank question an I admitted that the quantity oi gold in the world had not increased as fast as the business of the world, but methods hud been devised oy which *100 in gold would do now as much business as *2,01)0 used to do. This .liminlshed the demand for the actual metal. H> illustrated this by comparing the woik lone by water power witn one miil on a stream and an undershot wheel, and that done by mills all along the stream at successive falls, using turbine wheels. Turning to ihe subject of deht he said Harvey based "his new philosophy entirely upon the theory that ihe people of tho world are mostly in debt. It does not occur to him that the dobtors and creditors, when you speak of sums of indebtedness, are always precisely one same." Harvey replied to the mill argument by saying: "Money Is a stream. Suppose that along that stroam manufactories had been erected, and all had aljusted themselves to the quantity of water, and suddenly one-half of that water Is taken out of tho stream, what Is the effect? L't me draw another illustration Irorn the gentleman's figure: Suppose we were by laws to give rights to men living along the banks of that stream of water, to store it away, draw it out and put it In great reservoirs, and rent it to the manufactories and business houses along that stream that had adjusted themselves to the use of it, requiring them to pay a toll for the use of that water?hen you would have our present banking system." H irvi-y then put In a table giving homicidal statistics of the country from 18SJ to 1890 inclusive, showing that they increased from 1,4(5? to 5,1106; another table showing the linmigrntiou from 1883 to 1894 inclusive; another giving the number of inmates oi penitentiaries, jails, and insane asylums, and the number of suicides, 1850 and 18'-K), and the number of suicides .or each year from 1SS9 to 1894 inclusive?all showing a great increase. Commenting thereon he ?ald history told us that all republics had fallen, and this would fall unless we taught ourselves to diagnose national disease. When by u false money measure the people wore de prived ol their property, monarcny oecom -a a necessity. Horr took up tbo table of failures Har vey had put in. Ho referred to 1857 an i 1893; the former year was one of teurfu1 panic. Wo were then, according to Harvey, on a double standard basis. In 1S93 we were on u gold basis, and that, according to Harvey, was the cause of the panic. Horr said one cause of the latter panic was the free silver propaganda. The total liabilities in 1857 amounted to #10 per capita under double standard. Too per cupita in 1893 was #5.05 under a gold srandard In closing Thursday's debate Harvey had laid the crucifixion of Jesus Christ to the money power of that day. "He forgot that the only man that betrayed our Saviour was Judas Iscariot, the only silver man of the entire tribe, and what is romarkuble he insisted on a ratio of thirty tp one. Replying to Harvey's mill illustration Horr said that if half the water could be spared, and there still be enough to do the business, it wouldn't make a particle of difference. Harvey then recurred to the panic of 1857. He said that was caused by the bank credit system, and under that b.vstorn we would always have panics. Ho then proceeded to give ligures for his claim that the United Statos owes #40,OeO.uOO.OOO?not the government', but the people, and gave items from the B inkers' Magazine, including state, municipal and railway bonds, mortgages of various kinds, and bank, etc., loans and discounts, Jioamnmnnn ?nl aniH the I"(J VmiWU.vvv.vvv, ....... balance could be easily figur-d as "short timo" debts, whloh Horr himself said were vastly greater than long time debts. Harvey then referred to Horr's contention that falling prices were the result ol improved facilities for production, and said improved facilities did not lowei prices. It was the supply producod and the demand for it that regulated prices. To illustrate it he said: "Suppose a widow owning a farm receives the voluntary assistance of her neighbors to raise and harvest her wl*at crop, will her wheat be worth any loss than the price fixed by the quantity of wheat in existence known to traders, and the estimated demand for It." Continuing he said that it tne wnoie ^ corn crop of tills country, exceit Iowa, s were destroyed, the price of tne Iowa crop would not be goveruod by the cost of I production, and bo on. If improved t facilities resulted in an oversupply of e anything the price would fall. It wa? t all supply and detuan i; "the cost of pro I duction has nothing to do with with it." s But if it bo said that improved facilities I always result In lower prices, then such f facilities are being applied to all pro* ] ducts including gold and silver. "And if t it increases production, both in the things ' to be measured and the prolujt in w uc.i they are measured, the exch ia reable c value of the two would remaiu su b- r stantially unchanged." t H >rr attacked the the theory that the 6 business of the country depends on the circulation per capita, and presented a table showing the per capita for all the leading nations of the world, and sa d that France had $36 81 per capita, but her bank system was nothing to compare with that of Great Britain; Germany on y had $)3 56. and her greatest writer said she was crippled for want of banks; Great Britain hud $^0 41, but business was reuoily done because of hor can king system; we had 26 l?3 and there woro hundreds of millions of money lying idle because there was nobody to use it; Sweden had but $2 71 and there was no complaint of scurcuy of money there. Banks did not make money In pan e times, nor a great da..i wuon interest is high; it was when business was active, interest low and deposits increasing. A great part of the money in this country could not be used without banks. Money was deposited in bunks so that it could bo b<3 used lu business. "The banks pay interest to ?. jpositors In most Instances, and they make the money of depositors earn an enormous sum, millions upon millions each year, that they would never get a cent for but for tne banks investing it and paying them interest on thos-i deposits. Tiiey can't piy Interest on deposits if they don't get some interest themselves." H.-.rvey then took the floor and commented on the claim that the wugos of labor had Increased. Hi said there a ere two classes of labor?one that produced something and sold it itself, and one that sold its services to somebody else. I the first class was the farmer, the village 1 - - m ,u.._ ..1 , 1 tanner, mo couuier, etc. xuo uiu-r ?.-i inn was called wage-earners and wusdivi.ied ? Into two groups?organized and uuorgan ' Izod; the last included store clerk-, office help, etc., and owing to the gold standard. Store clerks, for instance, wer.getting $5 and ?7 per week, where In 1871 they got 113 and $15. In this group of lnbjrers the reduction in wages had been carried to the point of bare subsistence, and in many instances beyond that. Organized Jabor, however, bought out the matter with its employers and either gained its point or inflicted such an injury as to make it feared in the future. It this way organization had prevented wages from declining. Such organization would exist and had a rignt to exist, but our civilization should make it unnecessary. Horr then attacked the statement in the "School" that foreigners own real estate, personal property, bonds, stocks and mortgages in the United States to the amount of ten thous and million dollars. He said there wu9 not a shadow of authority for that statement, and explained apropos of the $JU,U0o,<X)0,0u0 debt matter that the "short time" debts he referred to were those accumulating every day in wages, salari-s, etc. Harvey\ resuming his discussion of the wages of labor, read a letter from Thomas d I. Kidd, general secretary of the Machine P Wood Workers' union, in which it was 0 stated that for work in Omaha in 188) carpenters g >t $3 75 per day, while the v average now was less than $3 In Ch> u cago wages h id fallen from $3.73 to $1 75 8 and less. Kidd odds that what the ^ laborer saves by cheaper clothes, etc., is r more than offset by rent alone and "then, again, rhe American niechanio is a great- 8 er consumer than he was thirty years ago. T Artn-les ihat were luxuries then are al- u must indispensable to his health and com- 1 fort now." Harvey gave the report of the labor commission for J8J3 to show that in * 67 pig iron establishments the men d averaged il 63 per day, working only 178 0 davs a year. 11 Releriingto tenancy he said he would " in a similar donate to this take the af- ' fl micivo of the proposition. "That 6 twenty million acres of land in the 8 United States to-day Is owned by E i- ? giish lords and titled nobility, and tn.it E lglish land tenantry has to that ex- 0 tent been already introduced Into this 1 country." ^ ? a al? a a \ AV\ iiaa /w\ j.wt. 1 Jtiorr resumeu inu fi',uA/,uw,wu uouu matter. He said that in die case of mort- r gages Harvey had largely overstated ? the amount. Ono series of a dozon or * more mortgages could be wiped out by u the payment of the first in the series. He 1 attacked ot.'ier items in the list given by Harvey and finally knocked oil of Hir- v vey's aggregate about 122,0J0,000,000, according to his (H irr's) figures. 1 Harvey insisted that he was right as to * the indebtedness of the country. In clos- b ing the day's debate Harvey took from fl his pocket the silver dollar having the word "unit'* stamped upon it, which he ^ had used in the beginning of the debate c to prove that the silver and not tho gold w doi.ar was the unit, and with a few gracefin words presented it to Horr, who ao- 61 cop" d it equally gracefully aud said he b would punch a hole in it and prepare it ? to hang around the nock of his little grandchild, born Just as this debate com- d mencod. c This closed the debate for the day and ^ It was adjourned to Monday, which will u be the final day of tho discus-din. A v number of questions were a9ked and re- b piled to. n n MNTII DAY. t: B r Horr had tho 11 >or again at the begin- ? ning of the last days'debate on the sii- ii ver question, and proceeded to criticise Harvey's use of the only correct fl<ure9 ii Harvey had given of American grain 1 prices"?"those he gave Thursday last i; for corn In 1872 and 1894. Said Horr: i ' When analyzed they show a per capita c decrease for man and beast in the latter t year of -5 per cent, and an advance in p gold prices of 26 per cent. This corres- 1 ponds with what Mr. Harvey repeatedly b has said is to be expected under normal r conditions according to the law of vary- p ing supply and demand, and thus proves that silver legislation has not affected c corn prices In the United States." Con- j tinulng Horr said that the Sauerbeck ^ tables proved nothing for this country; . they wore competed from European [ figures. "I defy him to produce the table of averages agricultural prices in Amerlca, constructed by hiinseif or any one ? else that will show a decline for the L whole country sinco 1875 " . He then questioned Harvey's statement J that there were 3,OX),000 or 4,000,000 peo- j pie out of work In this country at present, j which was quoted from Carroll D. ? Wright, and Horr read a telearram from t bright denying that he had ever given uch figures. Harvey replied tha'- about the only fact le liad used without confirming It was he one last mentioned by Horr. He had isked some lauor leaders if it could be elied upon and they said it could. He iad found out later that it was wrong, ind it wus no longer in his book. He i iad never knowingly printed or stated a act he did not believe was correct, dut when those working half time and hose not working at nil were considered 'you hnve got more than 4,UOO,OJO." The silver champion began his contlnuitlon of the argument with the prouuc ion of a "table lrom pages 134 to 136 of he mint report for 1893, of the gold and lilver coined in this country from 1792 to >373 I do this to remove the representaion that lias gone all over the country ^ hat for the first half of the century we vere on a silver basis and from 1350 to 373 we were on a gold basis. The best inswcr to that argument Is the production of the table of coins thomselves. fho statement that gold did not seek the nints lor the first fifty years and that uiver did not seek the mints for the last ? ihlrty years prior to 1873 is not true. "Page 130 of the United titates coinage ,aws, appendix and statistics, 1894, gives ;he approximate stock of money In the world. The stock of gold there given is S3,9i>1,901,000; the stock of silver there riven is r3 U31.9J0.000. This estimate in:.U'les gold and siiver coins and gold and illver bullion available for coinage into noney. The quantity of these two metals ivailable for coinage into money is what s lett after the demand for them of the irts ami manufactures are supplied. As livilization has grown the use in arts and nanufacture of these metals has grown jut of proportion to the Increase in population." Horr then took the door and proceeded ;o discuss what he considered the meat if the question: "Can this nation alone istabli-.fi the ratio of 10 to 1 and maintain t among the nations of the world?" He 4 lid not believu Harvey took the affirmative of that proposition. He quoted Harroy's book as follows: "They say it Is lot bimetallism unless two metals stay it exactly the parity of 10 to 1. These lien do not know what bimetallism is. iVe may have bimetallism and himetalllo irlces whether one metal has a tendency ,o leave us more than the other or not, ind if desirable to stop this leaving a change in the ratio would do It." Harrey, consequently, said Horr was not a \ stickler for 10 to 1. Continuing Horr said: "Now I start >ut with this proposition: Nations by heir laws do not fix the value of things. L'hey cannot do it if they try. The actual ralue of the two metals at the present line is wide apart. The figures 16 to 1 lo not represent the commercial value of he two today. Nobody claiips they do. Uways, from the earliest foundation of ociety, the relative value between gold md silver has been fixed by the people of he world and not by legislation. That s a lixed fact. They have never been ible legally to determine any ratio and lave it remain permanently. "Now, Mr. Harvey afod I both agree hat the tree coinage of silver will decrease the measure of value used here In his country. He don't deny that. The turden of his whole talk in this debate Is v hat we ought to have a cheaper measure; hat the unit is worth too much. So now re agree that it will chunge the measure, le proposes to relieve the distress of the eople by letting them pay what they we in cheaper money. I answer him, No, the debts of the day, the balk of hem, have been contracted with the gold ollar as the measure, and to relieve the aymeut of them in any way by a trick f this kind is repudiation.' "He answers me by saying: 'I agree rith you, the unit of values should be ised by both parties the same,'but he ays 'for twenty-two years your unit has emained stable.' Harvey said he would reply to the fore* oing at the proper time, and proceeded pith his estimate of the precious metals ised in the arts. He then Introduced a tile showing the production of gold and ts use In the arts each year from 1880 to t 892 in the United States, showing a pro* luct'on varying Irregularly from $30,000,U0 to $38,001^000, and use in the arts almost regulariy increasing from a little ess than $11,000,000 to over $19,000,000. le called attention to the quantity of ;old left each year to be used as money, howing $25,000,000 in 1880 and less than 14,000,000 in 1892. Then he took up silver and said that f the whole stock $1,954,300,00o was used n India, China, Mexico and the South American states, Japan and the Straits, ndla having $950,000,000 of it. Of the renalnder the United States had $024,000,00; United Kingdom, $112,000,000; '"ranee, $.100,000,000; Germany, $215,000,* 00; Spain, $155,000,000, and the re* nalnder among the smaller nations of be earth. The figures are all coinage alue in our dollars. Ho quoted authorities to show that &. here was no stock of silver to speak of in lurope;*that the use of s.lvor in tne arts ad grown wonder;ully and that the uppiy in the European market was ridiculously small at any one time." jasr year's silver production of this ountiy was $40,000,000 and $37,104,713 ras xported, sho -i ing that there was a email.l abroad for substantially all our liver, und these faots had ail important ^ earing on indipondant action by the raited States. He laid down the propositions that the emand by the rich fur either metal beams greater as the metal become costj\ that the dearer was hoarded when sed exclusively for primary money; that then both were used the plain people ?%.? .lust ollwus fn CArVii om In rlm? of eed, the rich hoarded gold to bull the ^ aoney market. Hoarding of silver by ha people was bmefloial; hoar ling of old wa9 an injury. That was one of the easons why silver has always proven tie nore stable money. Gold was not regular a production. Here he introduced another table showag the proluction of gild from 1343 to 392. inclusive. I" showed $37,OW.djj in 349, going up to $155,00),tXK?In 1851. drop ing variably to $90,000,030 in 1374. inreusing to $119.0 >0,000 in 1878, dropping o $95,000,000 in 1833, and then increasing ir?tty regularly to $.33 0)J,03J in 1893. 'he production of the two metals comlined was more regular than either sepaately, which made them safer for use as noney. .. "In the oase of the two metals we are onsldering they differ from corn in his: The use of these metals for money, vhen given lull money functions, is com* >aratlveiy unlimited. The supply, unike corn, is limited." Horr then proceeded with his argument .gainst a change of the present system. 'There is no disguising the issue between is; it is simply this: Can we benefit the >euple of this republic now by making a lollar mean any considerable amount ess than it now is by making it actually ess in valuef The free coinage of silver id a ratio of 10 to 1 means silver monooetalUam. The first result of such a law ,