The watchman and southron. (Sumter, S.C.) 1881-1930, August 20, 1919, Image 6
Jury Gives Him a Verdict of Six
Cents Against the Chi
cago Tribune
BOTH SIDES ARE CLAIM
ING A VICTORIOUS END
Tribune Counsel Says Failure of
Jury to Give Substantial Dam
!: ages Vindicates Tribune
Mount Clemens, Mich., Aug. 14.?
A jury tonight awarded Henry Ford
6 cents damages against The Chicago
Tribune for calling him an anarchist.
. Orvy Hulett. foreman of the jury,
said that they took "nine ballots that
,1 can remember," the first one, accord
ing to Leonard Measel, another juror
standing eight to four in favor of
awarding Mr. Ford some damages.
Attorney Alfred J. Murphy for Mr.
Ford said:
? "The important issue in this case
has been determined favorably to the
plaintiff. He has been vindicated.
"Money damages were entirely sub
ordinate and were not sought by Mr.
Ford. He stands not only vinidcated,
but his attitude as an American citi
;?en lias been justified after a trial
wbich raised every issue against him
which ingenuity and research could
could present His friends are entirely
satisfied." ;
: Weymouth Kirkland of counsel for
the Tribune, said:
"We consider it a victory for the
?reason that Attorney Alfred Luckling,
in ? closing. for Mr. Ford, stated that
anything less "than substantial dam
'^Sfeea. wounld be a defeat for his cli
ent" ^ - - .
"The> jury was out tenN hours.
Offending Editorial.
It was on June 23, 1916, after Mex
ican bandits bad raided Columbus, N.
3t, and military preparedness was a
, burning issue, not only because of the
Mexican menace but because of tbe
conflagration in Europe, that The Chi
cago Tribune printed its famous edi
torial haeded "Ford an Anarchist."
'Editorial writers of the Tribune testi
fied that they had followed Mr. Ford's
paciflstic propaganda, but had not rec
ognized it as a real danger of the
country until a news item was receiv
ed from Detroit that Mr. Ford was
drying to discourage the recruiting
of the'guard which had been ordered
to the Rio Grande. The item, au
thenticity of which was denied by
'Ford witnesses, stated that the Ford
Company would not pay the salaries
of employees who went to the border,
hold their' places for them nor care
for * then? dependents.
? It was then that the editorial was
written. It called Mr. Ford an "igno
' rant idealist" and remarked that his
views on disarmament might be dif
C ferent if his factories were on the Rio
Grande instead of the peaceful Cana
dian border.
- Counsel for the manufacturer at
first filed suit in the federal court at
Chicago, but later withdrew it and
fhjstituted proceedings in the State
eoort at Detroit. Here the Tribune
applied for a change of venue and
Judge James G. Tucker of the circuit
court of Macomb county at Mt. Clem
ens, was agreed upon to hear the case.
* Selection of a jury began May 12. It
consisted of eleven farmers and one
road builder.
"Witnesses From Border.
A feature of the case was the pro
duction by the defendant of more than
20 witnesses from the Mexican bor
der to testify to raids, murders and
other acts which, to the mind of The
Tribune counsel,^ established the fact
that there was a condition of anarchy
along the border.
Professor Reeves of the University
of Michigan, appearing as an expert,
^testified that rrany-of che Ford utter
: ahces correspond with the teachings
of well recognized anarchists. He
: uave definitions of the word "anar
chist" which contained no reference
to bomb throwing, but which denoted
one who works to overturn the govern
ment.
Counsel for the defendant argued
that government exists only so far as
it can enforce its decrees and protect
the lives and property of its citizens,
that without force there can be no
government and that where there is
no government there is anarchy.
Therefore, they sought to establish
that in opposing recruiting of soldiers,
Mr. Ford opposed the government it
self and, by the same token, sought to
establish anarchy.
Hence "Ford is an anarchist." they
said. The defense throughout was one
of jurisdiction and the right of fair
comment.
Bishop Charles D. Williams. Epis
copal bishop of Eastern Michigan,
was one of the principal witnesses for
the plaintiff. Many of Mr. Ford's ut
terances which the defendant had
called anarchistic, he said, also were
to. be found in the scriptures and in
the writings of non-anarchistic phil
osophers. As to the Ford propaganda
he drew the distinction that a man
n>:.~ht mistakenly advocate policies
wb:ch would result in anarchy, with
out himself being an anarchist. If his
object was to establish anarchy, then
he could be characterized as an an
archist. Mr. Ford's object, it was stat
ed was to establish univprsal peace.
Council for Mr. F^rd attempted to
prove that the editorial was written
in malice?specific mali'-p?as well as
the malice assumed in the m*?re pub
lication of the editorial. To this end,
they charged that the tribune wa.sj
pro-German and that, its advocacy of!
intervention in Mexico was a mask foj
hide friendship for Germany. Tb^
theory advanced was that by interven
tion American munitions would be
diverted from the enemies of Ger
many.
Mr. Ford did not accept the defini
tions of anarchy given by Professor
Reeves. He, personally as a witness,
and by other means, insisted that by'
Premier Lloyd George Gives
Official Assent to Rati
fication
ENGLAND HAS ACCEPTED
THE VERSAILLES TREATY
England Acts Without Refer
ence to Attitude of Republi
can Senators
London Aug. 15.?Lloyd George has
assented to the parliament bill ratify
ing the peace treaty, which thus be
comes a law.
WARRANT ISSUED
FOR PROFITEERS
Governor of Ohio Orders Arrest
of Forty Food Grafters
Columbus, Aug. 15.?Governor Cox
announced that forty warrants were
shortly to be issued by the state for
the arrest of food profiteers; also that
he would ask permission of the fed
eral authorities to confiscate two mil
lion pounds of meats and poultry in
cold storage.
TOBACCO MARKETS
OPEN BY MONDAY
Railroads Lift Restrictions From
Tobacco_
* Washington, Aug. 14.?Several days
ago the railroads notified the ship
ping public that certain goods includ
ing tobacco would be received with a
clause in the bill of lading stating sub
ject to delay on account of labor trou
bles. The tobacco buyers were with
drawn from all the markets in South
Carolina' because the tobacco- houses
of America refused to buy and ship
with this clause in the bill of lading.
The result was the closing of all to
bacco warehouses in the State threat
ening ruin to all the tobacco growers.
Senator Smith was appealed to to
see if relief could not be had through
the railroad administration. He took
the matter up with Mr .Chambers, di
rector of traffic; Mr. Chambers took
the matter up with the Atlanta office
yesterday. Mr. Smith being himself
a tobacco grawer, went again before
Mr. Chambers and gave him a detail
ed statement of the danger that
threatened the tobacco grawers.
Mr. Chambers got into communica
tion with the Atlanta office over long
distance phone.
While in Mr. Chambers office Sen
ator Smith received a telegram from
the tobacco growers' organization of
South Carolina, stating that a delega
tion would be here this morning.
They also laid the matter before Mr.
Chambers, who said he was just wait
inj? for a reply from Atlanta. A few
minutes after the delegation left, Mr.
Chambers called up Senator Smith's
office and made this statement: "The
railroad administration has today or
dered all restrictions and limitations
on bill of lading for tobacco removed
at once and that the railroads shall
expedite the shipping of tobacco as
rapidly as possible." The warehouses
will reopen Monday.
ITALY PAWNS
INDEMNITIES
England Concludes Financial
. Deal and Gets First Claim
Rome, Aug. 15.?The newspapers
announce that Italy may cede to Eng
land a part of her indemnity from
Germany through a recent financial
\ agreement.
PERSIA MORTGAGED
_ I
John Bull Strengthens Hold in
The East
I London. Aug. 15.?The British and
Persian governments have concluded
I an arrangement by which England
will help to rebuild the Persian states.
WILSON VETOES
DAYLIGHT BILL
Washington. Aug. 15.?President
Wilson vetoed the bill repealing the
daylight saving law. It is daubtful if
a two-thirds majority in Congress nec
essary to offset the veto can bo ob
tained.
Paris. Aug. 15.?Tim supreme coun
cil in a note to the Rumanian govern
ment said it does not ask the Ru
manians to leave Budapest immediate
ly. The note is considered likely to
avoid a breach as Roumania has de
clared that it regards itself as an ally
of the Entente and a member of the
peace conference.
Saloniki. Aug. 1"?.?-Frank Polk,
head of tbf" American peace delega
tion at Paris, is endeavoring to ad-!
just with Premier Venizelos tlm Bul
garien demand for an outlet to the
Aegean Sea.
anarchist, th?- Tribune meant the old
fashioned bomb thrower of the Hay
market Square variety. That, his law-;
ycr asserted, was the impression that
Tribune readers would get from the
editorial.
The hearing was one of the longest
on record, according to counsel. Tran
script of testimony approximated 2.
000,000 words.
To Discuss Disputed Points in
Treaty of Peaece and
League Covenant
MEETING IS ARRANGED
FOR NEXT THURSDAY
If President Fails to Give Infor
mation Wanted Col. House
May Be Called
Washington, Aug. 14.?President
Wilson's offer to talk over the peace
treaty with the Senate foreign rela
tions committee finally was accepted
today. At the suggestion of Republi
can members and by a virtually unan
imous vote the committee decided to
inform the President it would be glad
to meet him at his convenience to go
over the disputed points in the treaty
and the league of nations covenant.
At the same time the committee voted
to call additional witnesses and con
tinue its hearings.
The President set 10 o'clock next
?Tuesday for the meeting and wrote
to Chairman Lodge that in line with
a suggestion by the committee he
would not consider the discussion con
fidential in nature. In notifying Mr.
Wilson of the committee's decision.
Senator Lodge had written that mem
bers did not desire to be bound by
secrecy as to any information they
might receive at the conference.
The President chose the White
House as the place of the meeting al
though the chairman had left the way
open for him to come before the com
mittee at the Capitol if he preferred,
writing that the committee would see
him at any time or place hV might
select
The letters were not made public
but Secretary Tumulty made this state
ment:
"The President received Senator
Lodge's request for an appointment
to meet the foreign relations commit
tee to discuss the treaty of peace. Ot
course the President welcomes this
opportunity to meet the foreign rela
tions committee and has fixed Tues
day morning at 10 o'clock as the time
for a meeting at the White House.
The unprecedented condition of the
conference as set by Senator Lodge in
his letter to the President, fits in with
the President's own preference as to
publicity, so that the people of the
country may be put in possession of
all ?he information he has about the
treaty of peace."
Senator Lodge had suggested, it be
came known, that owing to the ab
sence of some members, the appoint
ment be made for some day subse
quent to Monday next.
Mr. Lodge, told the President that it
was assumed by the committee that
nothing said at the meeting would be
considered confidential. He recalled
that the plan of the Senate was to
consider the treaty in open executive
session and in view of this plan the
committee felt that any information
in regard to the treaty which came
into their possession should be with
held from the public.
It was to this paragraph of the let
ter that Mr. Tumulty referred in stat
ing the President's desire for pub
licity. v
The proposal to consult the Presi
dent grew out of a general discussion
whether the committee should con
tinue its hearings to proceed to act
on the facts already before it. Sena
tor Johnson, Republican, of Califor
nia, it is understood first to have men
tioned the President as a witness, but
the formal suggestion that the com
mittee meet him was made by Sen
ator Lodge.
Democratic members, promptly sec
onding the suggestion, pointed out
that the committee had been told in
its hearings that only the President
could reveal certain features of the
peace, negotiations, and declared that
Mr. Wilson's inforjnal offer to receive
the members of the White House re
mained open. This offer was made
through Senator Hitchcock, of Ne
braska, the administration leader,
when the committee first took up the
treaty a month ago. The decision to
act on the proposal was taken without
a record vote.
In deciding to call additional wit
nesses the committee reversed its de
cision reached yesterday to speed ac
tion on the treaty. It was voted to
request the appearance of five persons,
advisers at Versailles who resigned,
it has been reported, because they dis
agreed with the decisions of the con
ference regarding Shantung and Rus
sia. They are E. T. Williams, S. K.
Hornbeck and William C. Bullitt. The
others summoned are. John C. Fer
guson and Thomas R. Millard. sug
gested as authorities on far eastern
affairs.
Dividing nine to eight, the. commit
tee rejected a motion to question Gen
Tasker H. Bliss. Col. E. M. House and
Henry White, who. with President
Wilson and Secretary Lansing, made
up the American peace commission
proper. It was said afterward that,
the action with regari to Col. ?Totioc'
might be reconsidered should mem
bers fail to get from Presiden? Wil
son the. information they desire about
the league of nations negotiations.
Some of the witnesses summoned
are understood to be abroad and some
members thought their appearance
would make a report on the treaty
impossible f<<r several weeks. In t>.at
connection it was intimated at ?he
White House that Seua.:o" HitehcocK
acted with the backing of the 'Ma in
dent yesterday when he.toM '.he com
mittee that unless there was s-.m?
action micrht develop on the Senate
tb?or. Consequently Senator.-; saw in
the committee situation some inter
esting possibilities.
eneva, Aug. 15.?A Prague dispatch
states that a large section of Socialists
are working for the creation of a<
monarchy in Czecho-Slovakia, *
State Authorities and Attorney
General to Cooperate in
the Work
TO SEIZE ALL FOOD
FOUND IN STORAGE
All Attempts to Transfer Goods
in Storage to Meet Drastic
Punishment
Washington, Aug. 15.?Close co-oy
eration between state authorities who
possess detailed information of food
and price conditions and the attorney
general and his staff of assistants,
empowered to enforce the food control
law, is being established as part of
the government's fight to reduce the
cost of living.
Instructions went out today from
Attorney General Palmer to the two
district attorneys in Ohio to proceed
immediately to assist Governor Cox
in the seizure of large quantities of
meat, butter and eggs, alleged to have
been held in storage in the state for
more than six to ten mon'hs .the legal
limits. Criminal prosecutions will be
instituted, it was said, if it can be
shown that the foods were held from
the market for tho purpose of boost
ing prices. Officials here were inclin
ed to think that the long period of
storage indicated some other reason
than an effort to spread the abundant
supplies of a producing season over
the lean part of the year.
Acting on a telegram late today
,from Governor Cox '.saying that a
Cleveland concern in order to escape
possible prosecution for hoarding was
moving its meat products to ware
houses in Chicago and destroying its
records, the department of justice or
dered the district attorney at Cleve
land to look into the matter imme
ditely. All attempjts to effect trans
fer of goods in storage, officials said
would be summarily dealt with.
Seizure of large stocks of foodstuff:
in storage continued 'today with re
ports received of libete filed in Cleve
land and Detroit and preparations foi
such action in many cities. The de
partment was informed tonight tha'
the district attorney at Detroit hac
filed libels in three cases and seizec
approximately 10,460,000 eggs anc
300.000 pounds of butter, all of whicl
had been held in storage for some
time.
Statistics announced by the bureai
of Markets, showing a great increase
in the amount of food held in stor
age were said by Judge Ames, as
sistant to the attorney general, ir
charge of enforcing the. food control
law to bear out the department's con
tention that a prime reason for en
hanced prices was the holding of sup
plies, from the market. ?
"We are going to force these hoard
ersc and profiteers to disgorge," Judge
Ames declared, wherever they arc
found to hold greater amounts thar
are necessary for the conduct of theii
business and the safeguard ins of th?
food situation during the winter."
The agriculture committee of both
Senate and House continued work to
day on legislation asked by Attornev
General Palmer extending the provi
sions of the control act and giving a
criminal penalty for violations of it.
Opposition by several senators
balked an immediate report by the
Senate committee, which now plans
to act Tuesday. Judge James appeared
before the house committee, explain
ing why the department of justice
thought this legislation necessary.
Another witness before the house
committee was John D. Miller of the
National Board of Farm Organizations
who urged that farm associations
should be exempt from any regula
tions as to the price and distribution
of food prod nets. L. D. H. Weld, of
Swift & Company, testifying before
the house interstate commerce com
mittee, which is considering cold stor
age, declared that to force stored food
on the market now would create a
serious situation next winter.
Through the putting on sale today
of 2.000,000 surplus army blankets,
the war department made another at
tack on high living costs. Telegrams
reaching the department late today
indicated remarkable response to gov
ernment offers.
Long lines of would-be purchasers
gathered early in the day at each of
the sixteen distributing points and
large quantities were quickly disposed
of at prices ranging from $6 to $1.50
a blanket.
Officials here were anxious that the
distribution should be widened so that
persons remote from the supply cen
ters might be able to take advantage
of the sale, hut they couid see no way
in which this could be effected. In
quiry was telegraphed, however, to
those in charge of the sales to report,
the number of blankets remaining on
hand with a view to making the sale
subject tc mail orders when accom
panied by the full purchase price.
WILL FORCE LOANS
i TO GOVERNMENT
Rome, Aug. 16.?The government
has decided that it will force wealthy
persons to grant leans to it at a very
low rate of interest
Copenhagen, August 15.?An ad
vance on Petrograd by anti-Bolshe
vists, which is hoped will be decisive,
is announced in messages from Hel
singfors. General Judenich is in com
mand of the Russian volunteer troops
supported by the Esthonians.
London. Aujx. 15.?The Bolsheviki
have been defeated by the Esthonians
"oil the South coast of the Cftilf of Fin- j
land. The Bolsheviki admit their .re-j
treat to the Luga river. 1
LUMBER
PAINT
ARE YOU GOING TO BUILD?
We sell everything for any building
BOOTH & McLEOD. Inc.
BUILDING MATERIAL BUILDERS* HARDWARE
CONGRESS SPEAK
Campaign Meeting Was Held
Today in Court House With
Fairly Large Attendance
COOPER AND DUNCAN
SUPPLIED THE GINGER
Meeting Was Generally Good
Humored and Without Partic
ular Features
The c. ldidates for election to Con
gress, to fill the unexpired term caus
ed by the resignation of A. F. Lever,
i spoke to about 300 voters of Sumter
county Saturday at 11:30 a. m. at the
: court house.
The meeting was presided over by
Mr. J. H. Clifton, county chairman.
The meeting was characterized by the
good order that prevailed.
Mr. C. S. Monteith, of Columbia,
was the first speaker who told of his
. hardships as a young man. Since
. 1914 he has been city attorney for
. Columbia although the council; has
. been practically changed. While not
a farmer he claims to know the need
. of the farmers. Warehouses are need
' ed to keep- the cotton off the market
j when it should be. He i? opposed to
immigration at this time, since it is
absolutely necessary to have 100 per
, cent. Americans at this era in the his
tory of the United States. Something
: must be done, and will be done by
, Wood row Wilson.
The speaker told the audience that
he was opposed to universal military
training, but favors a strong navy to
enforce the rights on the sea.
In conclusion Mr. Monteith urged
all voters to register and vote in the
general election in order to defeat
Cole. Blease and his bolters.
J. T. Timmerman, of Lexington,
told of his past campaigns for solici
, tor in his district and of the endorse
ment he had from Lexington county
, officials. Mr. Timmerman stated that
the gentleman named Smith, who had
a statement on Mr. Fulmer's cards,
and who signed it as a member of the
legislature from Lexington county,
was not from Lexiington county, but
rather was a bookkeeper in Mr. Ful
mer's store at Norway.
The speaker told of what he be
lieved to be the big issues of the cam
paign and explained his position.
J. H. Cooper, of Columbia, who
spoke third, began by saying that the
best man should win. Public honesty
is the very character of any govern
ment. Mr. Monteith's affiliations make
him unfit for this public office, since
he was a member of the W. A. Cole
man gang, which has tried to corrupt
not only Columbia, but Richland
county as well. Mr. Cooper ended his
discussion of Monteith by saying that
he (Monteith) was in fast company
and was warned by the speaker to
drop Colemanu and his gang. He be-!
lieved in federal aid to education. Ed- j
ucation is the tool which enables a j
man to live as he should. Organized |
labor is a good thing as long as its
actions are decent, but no longer. Mr.
Cooper received much applause.
Mr. John T. Duncan, also of Co
lumbia, told of the condition of poli
tics in Columbia and South Carolina.
He explained his efforts to try to rid
the state of these corrupt political
bosses and told of the death ttf poli
tics of Clark, the head leader. Mr.
Duncan told of his efforts to try to
help the farmers and finally discussed
Cole. L. Blease and the negrbes. A
large number of those present left af
ter the speaker finished.
Mr. K. P. Fulmer ,of Norway, be
gan by explaining that Mr. Smith, who
I was said by Mr. Timmerman to be a
resident of Orangeburg county, was a
former member of the legisuature
from Lexington county and at present
was cashier at the Bank of Swansea
in Lexington county. However, Mr.)
Smith was at one time a bookkeeper j
for Mr. Fulmer in his store.
Mr. Fulmer told of his qualifications
for the office. He had been a success
ful business man and farmer, as well
as a banker. He is making the race [
on his merits as a man and not on
knocking his opponents. He paid a
tribute to the work of A. F. Lever in
congress. Mr. Fulmer told of the fine
harbor at Charleston, and not the nec
essary ships to make, it a truly great
port. He believes in good roads, but
say the professors at the Citadel.
University of South Carolina and
Clemson College were not capable to
spend money to the best advantage
on the roads. The speaker spoke very ,
favorably of the American Cotton As
sociation wbieh is being formed to
protect the farmer from the buyer. ;
The last speaker was Ed. C. Mann,
of St. Matthews. Mr. Mann is solici
tor from the district in which he re- ]
sides. He paid a tribute to Sumter h
as the most progressive town in the .
state of South Carolina. Mr. Manul,
STILL RIOTING
IN IRELAND
Attempt of Soldiers to Break Up
Nationalist Demonstrations
Has Disastrous Results
MOBS STONE SOLDIERS
IhHHHHmHHHHBHH
WHO CHARGE CROWDS
[Property Damage Estimated at
Thousands of Pounds and
More Trouble Feared
Londonderry, Ireland, Aug.. 16.?
Rioting and looting followed an at
tempt of soldiers to break up a Nar
tionalist demonstration. The mobs
stoned the soldiers who charg f http
crowds and shots were fired the
rioters. The property damaged is esti
mated at thousands of pounds. More
rioting is feared.
POLITICAL PARTIES
CLASH AT BELFAST
Ten Nationalist Excursionists
Injured in Fight at Lisburn
Belfast, Aug. 16.?Ten Nationalist'
excursionists were injured in a fight
with Orangemen at Lisburn County
Down. There was rioting at Coa
Island, County Tyrone, also.
CITADEL ALUMNI
TO RAISE FUNDS
To Canvass For $100,000 Fo*
Alma Mater
Columbia, Aug. 16.?The steering
committee of the Association of Gi..X~
uates of the Citadel met in Columbia
yesterday to outline pJ.ans ,for the
campaign among alumni and students
of the institution for the subscriptions
to the amount of $100,000. This fund
is to supplement an approbation o?
$300,000 by the general asembly and
a donation of 200 acres of land by
Charleston as a site for the Greater
Citadel on which the new institution
will be built Only preliminary mat
ters were considered at the meeting
yesterday. Col. O. J. Bond/ of the
Citadel faculty came to Columbia to
meet with the committee.
The plans for the development of
the citadel are very ambitions. Char-,
leston has donated to the institution
a splendid site of 200 acres for ex
tension and the legislature last ses
sion appropriated $300.000 for im
provements. The alumni now propose
to supplement that $300,000 in order
to enable their. Alma Mater to be
come in size and equipment, as well
as in tradition, one of the truly great
er institutions of the South.
The campaign committee which has
just been appointed by the president
of the assocition of graduates, con
sists of the following named well
known business men.
W. S. Lee. vice president and chief
engineer of the Southern Power Com
pany, Charlotte, class 1S94, chairman.
! D. G. Dwight. treasurer and man
ager of McCabe Fertilizer Company.
Charleston, president. Association of
Graduates of the Citadel, class of 1890
ex-officio chairman.
William Godfrey of William Godfrey
& Company, lumber merchants, Che
raw, class 1890.
H. W. Fr?ser, cashier of the Peo
ples Bank, Georgetown, class of 1891. .
J. R. Westmoreland, president of'
Employees Savings Bank, Pacolet,
class of 1900.
W. J. Murray. Jr.. secretary and as
sistant treasurer, the Murray Drug
Company, Columbia, class of 1907. -
stated that he had no* promises to!
make, that he intended to stand by
the Democratic platform, whatever it.
may be. He believes in good roads,
and liberal support of educational in-.
stitutions. He would help not only
the Seventh district but the State of
South Carolina and the United States
at large. He thinks that the masses
should be educated, but is opposed to
the universal military training because
when the League of Nations is rati
fied it will not be needed.
The speaker is opposed to immigra
tion for the next five years. Every
man admitted should have a certifi
cate to testify as to his character.
The raee question, said the speaker,
was of the utmost importance in this
country.
Mr. Mann told of his opposition fo
Cole Blease. He had always been
igainst him.
The speaker received much ap
plause from his hearers throughout
his speech. Mr. Mann seemed to be
the favorite speaker, although all were
given a good hearing. No speaker
ivas interrupted during his speech.