Historical Newspapers of South Carolina

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HR OP NA. THE PEOPLEJFS A - :-- - ~. O ~S -~ ~ V -5.-NO. 42 ILCKEiNS S. C., THURSD3AY, OCTOBER y, 1895. . ONE DOLLAR AVEAN. LARGE OR SMALL UOUNTIES. A KNOTWY AND UNSOIVED PItOB Ex-Consgreisman George D. TIE lnan Argues n FavorI orSsRIall Countles W. 0. McGowan Leads 1he Opposi The diiscustion in reogard to large and small counties was coIducte(l inl a becoming sipirit, and there was much ability shown on both sides. Sensator Tillman and Governpr Shop pard want ted to maintain the logislative s'ynnuII( Itry by liniting the iumber of now counties-to be created, but the sugges tion %.was not adopted, and it was thought best to accomplisth this result by limiltingr the area I- -onrssa Tilinan and Capt. W. C. McGowans made the leading speeches on opposite Sides. i. Geo. 1). Tillman said h never arose to spok where he felt so incapa1 blt of doing his best or the subjOct justice, but he would do his best. Had he not been so thoroughly inl sympathy with the movement for theso new counties he would not have com to the convention. He went on to say ho made no campaign, and was elected by his people. The unIform support of his people for thirty-eight years had made him feel that if he could serve thesm he should do so. He had twice declined to be a candidate, but so many of his friends had so urgently requested him to do so that he had felt compelled by his duty as well as by his gratitude to cAme here and give whait help he could In the making of a good constitution. He wanted to say that he (lid not coie to the convention to wound any one's feelings, that he had no political aspi rations, no wires to lay or no pipes to I put down. "Sir," said he, with tho true ring of eloquence. "I am done with public life. I have received far more than my share of public honors and am content. So no man herocan charge me witl political purposes in anything I may say and any position I may take. I repeat it, sir. I amu done with politics. Mvy public life is behind mue. Let men worship the rising rath Or than the setting sun. and I will do my bost for a cause which has been close to my heart and which has up pealed to my intellect since my boy hood." It had been his pleasure to devote a largo part, of his life to poI it ical economy, sociology, )thics an1d kindred subje4ts related to the science of government. Ile did not feel that physically or mentally there is any reason for his retirement from public life, but lie wanted to repeat it that his retirement from public life was permandnt. He went on to say that he regarded this matter of small counties and self gover-nment as of even smore conse quence than that of suffrage, for In some way the suffrage matter would regulate itself. The geographical. geological and hydrographical surveys have agreed that the areai of this State is 34,000 square miles. That is agreed upon. If we make tho limit to lifty counties that would give asn ar'et of *ver 500 square miles. W hy not leave omething to the people. We are not acoustomed to telling the people to their faces they are fools. They know what they wait. He challenged any one to show that a single smillt county I had ever asked to be consolidated. That was not the way things went. The.present aea now was noarly 1,000 square miles. CollOton and Berkeley have about 2,000 square miles. Wo have several - counties larger than I Rhode Island and many noar'ly as large as Delaware. [t is a sinegul ar fsact that for the first ninety-nine years aftoer thei State was settled we have but a singlei court house in the .Stateo oxcept, at Charleston. Trhat was what brought about lynch and mob law and it was tAls condition that led to the assassina V .)n of the grasndifather o~f Col. Thomss Woodward, of lPairfield. lie could cite cases in idgetiold that snevesr went toI trial because of the delays of, gettisng to the court asnd the annsoyances and loss-of goilng to court. In all the old States tihe Idea is for aL farmosr to look around his farm isn t~he maorning andti then go to the court hiousc and attend to business and retursn homse before night. That, he thought, looked like civilization. The trouble In goinig to anti returning~ froms court lhe thought had much to do with the reck lose, spirit. (of many in F~dgelield counity,. He wanted to know if tlshore wasj ob jectIon to small counties, w hy not, elet, the whole ticket of Senator's or mloml beors on one general ticket.. -if you want good represenltatlive gover'nmen t you want the people to .<now oach othor'. it Is so easy for' a demagogue or a as c~a to pass amsong a largo constituency, bu in small cosmmusities a reprsesensta tive cannot sail under false colors andi ~ey besit~ato to defy public opinilosn at, Ilune. 4ew Jiuglas.d, heo thought, had < e hos isatnti governmsienit isn this c~untryand he asttibuhtedl th is to theirm' Sall distmlicts and the closo and inti aassoociations of the law-makers thelf colastituoncie~s Their to wn - s ~government, he held, has dono i sud to ,makeo their' govoinment 5o < p~ table. Trhen ho took up the judicial. paso of the questosn and waiited "to ksnow whether' it was Wi1 em or epedeint, tp) make a wituoss -go fQ5t .iles5 f!rQpn home, degleetis bsne~ss to- go.tQ1.Ld wal fo) ae~k ona parltic ~r~ chase. 4oother: Stat,Ih urged, r'equ red-mbsslu ti g 4 fasantd at auehxey-ponse t at $ond.'coesrt..s Li said. ha# kbore Charles ton no prejudice, but was free to admit $hat ieonho was younsg heo was preju gloed akains't, that old cit y because of uner responsibility for' the parish s,'s tem, which he helped to (10feat. When Hout~h.Caoina was origisnally settled the people1 went, to tile coast. and they secured the facilities of the State and they grudgisngly sus'r'ender'ed anything to the up-cosutry. Down to the olose of the civil was' Charleston nad toen Sbnastors out of forty-six, and six low counties had twenty-six. There were fortygflve Senators tintil 1854 And 1855, when'ono additional Senator was glion Aiiderson- and - Plckens, snakinig fody-ssix. and at that time six counitios in the lowicountry had twenty-thr'eo Seators and the rest of the State twen-' tj-three Senators. Hie said it was sur prisinig to see how grudgingly Charles ton gave Anderson an~d Pond leton thoir' extra. Senators. it seemed, he urged,1 >e and give them facilities for carry ig on a civilized government. le vanted the South to give the same hance as had been given the Western ;tates. He said lie had been a great traveler n horseback, and especially in ;eorgia, Alabama and M ississippi, and here are a great many Carolinians here. He spoke with many of thOm s to why they left their State. Upon is honor lie would say that over one alf of thom told him they left so as to e able to live near a court, house. He id hope that the only restriction bould be that there shall be a sepa Late election in each county to be disa iembered. The people are not fools, nd then the Logislature is a check. Visdoin, prudonoo and common sense ill not die with us. Mr. McGowan, of Abbeville. said ho ts a great, ad mirer of the last speak r, but he could not agree with h In fter a Conscientious study of the facts. Vile lie may look at tho matter from personal standpoint, lie did not think V Could fall to see tOe r-eal facts. He 'as looking at the facts as near as ho >mid. .r. Till inan said he did not earnest favor McCormick County, but he ved In that territory and would vote wr it. .r. McGowan thought he could look t thi mattor as disinterestedly as Ir. Tilliaa. It, wast wrong to charge t- Ahhoville delegates with sinister lotives. No one who caine from so roud a county could help having miu feeling about the matter of the ireatoned emasculation of old Abbe ille. It was unfair to form so many o1w coulnt les and then stop. Air. Talbort wanted to know whether ver two new courities of the six pro osed could be taken from Abboville. Mr. McGowan said it ws proposed ut to limit the arca and no one could ll where the matter would end. If the rea is at a high inur. of coursO, the x proposed countiies cannot be form 1. lEvery man is intorested in his >unty atnd every man has the right to >eak f:wr his county. 'T'h people live had their say and they (10 not ant a hundred one-horse countles, and icy would do the samo today. The nalt counties of Georgia have done Lur iore harm than good and the Late would have prospered ton fold Ithout 137 counties. He had inquired to the matter, and unless men born Abboville County and now living the St.te of Georgia do not know hat they are talking of, then there notlhing in the argument. The talk I expenso Iot being greater is bosh. lorenco paid a municipal tax, he nd, of twenty-five mills. Ile has Oet inl the small counties along the av~niniah, and of all the one-horse lebantgs he ever saw they were the oist. He had some business over in no'of these counties. le could not nd the sheriff and every otico was scked ill) and it was one-horse in very respect. He road a letter from Major vin. T. ary of Georgia formerly of this State, ) whom he had written for the facts. Iajor Gary wrote that he appreclated. :iat counties could he too large, but, greater danger was in the having >O small counties. The small counties ave been of no benefit to Georgia. 'here are forty-four Senators appor oned aniong 137 counties and they >tate the Senator aiong tihe counties. 'his brought about log-rolling. Thite. :mnties, h;e wrote, held aiout the tie relative position as townships. here Is but small pay and that does ot, command good. miei, and he know f a shei-iff who CouIld not write his ine. If smnall counties are iL bless ig, lie wanted to know why Georgia tiled a convention mainly to stop the unty evil. Hi al'so had letters from [r. oykin Wright, and Mtajor lat omnd. -Major H~ammnond wrote that UWiwas aL melmiber of the conventioni of 4%5 ando gave his implressioni. Mi.~ Tilbert naked -whether all who rote wer~e not living at county seats. Mlr. McGowvan cOnstrued this as canting that these mnu would write hat they dId not believe because icy hapL pened to live at court hlouses. Mtr. Talbiert said he impiugnied no otives, bit.i( AlcGowan insisted lie 01uld saly thoso mfent had been in .monced biy living at court houses. Mr.. McGownn weint on to say that me..George I). Tillmnan had beent wed Md to this new county plan so long 'at lie is prtobably -surprised at, the eling here. in Kentucky they have uperic coutnties. They are so small id poor that the State has to pay the >untty explenseui. There the area was Xmiles. lie had gone ogT on township tlf-government. It Is local self-gov 'numnt gone mad. Georgia has tnot .1d the tremendous incubus of negro ajorities. She would have pros iredl as well with -counties tree mres as large. There is. no longer y further ag-ltation of this question Georgia. Tihils intolerable nuIsance its been sitoppeLd for that State, This mn mtile Is just. The smallest county Ivocated Is a '400 square mile county. he theory is to put the coutrt house In te contre and it was not fair to run a >w coun1 3y upl to mocre tha4 ton miles the old courthousie. In the follow ig States the ten-mile limit has been lopted :Arkanens Kansas, IllInois, [iesouri, Pensylyanla and Texas. The siduation has been made that we are ~hting Groonwood County. I am >t fighting Greenwood. She can be >mne a county seat with the ten-mile muit,. but I do want the ten-mile limit >protect my ancient county seat, Ab >vl le. THEi TAEN MILE LIMIT. lhe IDebate ont the New County Quaestioni Waxed Warm-Hot Words itetwoeen Delegatec Gary and Sona tor Tilinman. TIheu discussion of ithe.. county nest ion In the constitutlial .convpn on waxed fiercoe and furious as the ays wentt on, and on' Wedneyday. night toe was a sp)arring intatch between oentor Tillmnan and -Mtr.. Friank II. ary, of Abbevillo County; which ex rcdedl anything in tat dine since the ,ssion began. Mr. Gary said lie waidted to talk bout hdgelieid's fairnes. FEdgefield adl required that the court house of aluda- was not only to be in thiq1 gee raphical centet, but, also that the line bocuid not run withint ten miles of dgefleld. We are taunted with mak nig unholy alliances. Who set us the aynple / enjamnin U. Tiliman, of dgefold. Ho won't deny that in like pooti 0 jusc that Chalest.ni should feel somic of the opl)rS'sioni sn. I Imposed oi the rest of the btate for two V wonturies. This was; all when the u)- C country had four timues the wiite Iop ulatioln of .h() low-couitry. and paid mDore tlani twice the tatxesC.of the lower C counties. 0jo then went, on to say that not, a t county that had had its territory redu- It ced to make Other counties was SOrry a for it. , ii lie thought ti m nILiest, thinr lie h1 ever saw done II in an, electio wa thilat b the newest counties voted against, the I aonn1ient to Pi 14)1'ial ler areas 1r .4 new countLi. Anderson and I'iekens r and other eotiiitiies. Solliu sH fegy.1i:1rds i.6 lla h t1ie o viin Ia around the croILiqiI ol iI w counties in N the minority reporLt. The reort is not % comp1 JletLe and futitlly defetive. W hat. is the use to have any limit as to how m ne0Ur IL CoIILv tin3e shoul.hi run to a 10 county seat thatt had battled for Ecea- it tion, voted aiigainst the amundinent, V and whly he niever understood. Georgia a had Inno hundr-ed atl Li irty-sOvOn h counties and not a single cunty was n w illig to surrender its couInty board. e< This was an area of -123. square miles. In Tonnessee the art-a was 4127, and the I new (olstitui tion providutd for Ln11 arealt 1i of only 285 square miles. Vi rgi Ia had f its area at 385 square Milles and no COuInty t,here wanted to bue consolid atod a with another. or as is vulgarly said \ they hold on to it, " liku doath does to tj 1i nuiggc'." It wis simply ltAting pco- n1 plo govern themselves to let t0hom1 have 1p mucl Cotlios ats they wanted. lie did so uot understand why thu people shouhil L riot be given it chance to goveIn them - v selives. Any people who want to take n LIpon themilsolvs the expense and Ire. 'ponsibility of countyhood should b o llowed so to do. GIrcenville was not 1) )V(3r live niles from the emunty line iid was satisfactorily located. DII- n1 lingtoni and Florenice two of the most to rsperoiis and successful cities in the a Pee-Deo, were within teni miles of each s Iteor and did not suifer for it. c' Col. Tillmilan made it plain that tubo c< :rejudicu h4e may have euntertained Fil igainst Charlieston for its large Sona- h orial delegation in liis youngeri days w ind its policy on this iimatter ilad died i !omnpltel1 y awIy. It is stated that iI si he committee roomi lie advocated leav- h ng the two Senators to Charleston. S lie wanted to say with what fo-ce he w lould that the convelitiomn ought, to it )Povide for It little more hiuome rule i: tnd personal liberty. What he had ii mid of Charlestoni had not been said in W tiiy spirut of triIIm). Since the do- is ing away with the parish system he 01 had no ill will towards Charleston, 1 utd, he added, lie was the only mom- I1 b)er of the coImIIittee who atdvoeated b harleston's having two Senators, S becausCit had the popullation and the ' wealth, twice as mu tchi as al most any :ouity. with one or two excejptions. U ipartatinbui-g, he prophesied, would 11 have three Senators, for there will he 14 I county sett itt Gatuney and another e it Woodrutm, notwithstanding the rav rngs of the Headlight and the vested G nterOsts of Spartanbir'g. t flu went on to say thalt all large ,ountlcs would in time be dividod. t L or at least two hundred years Ia harilestoni exercised IL domineeri-ng t yrannv over the balance of the State. 4he hits gotten more justieU than shoi >er1haips deserves. but thece is no need [or revenge. It was not wise or proper, Ind lie wanted to know whethber the I >ld policy of thu low-country was o bo he .'epeated. Hie h1o)e not. yet theso argo counties were combiniing their 7 nterests. Colleton is sure to have one )I two counties carved out of it. Iock 0 1111 is sure to have It court house by I he ternal law of things, which is If dways right. The majority reportIcL :)roposes that there shaIl Ibe a sopay - C'c ito elect-ion had in every county prio- : hosed to hi) dismnunbtured anld that ii here shallI be at corncurrene ini itll re. h plects. For God's sake 1e.t us niot, put, ~ollaris iarounid the people's necks or 3hains around thorm. lie saw no necoi W OP a intltitude of restirainots on the iow couttIes. As to the number of ir sonators alar'ming anyonie. thatt wats aw tmgaboo, as thore could be Sonatorial LI listricts, and one Senator couild repre setnt several couniti&)s and give homo mi 'ulo Lto the people, ile contended thatt w' imaill couintics would reduce county' t xpunsos. The county court house and jail could be built otit of landl sold )ut of property subscribed for a county d moat. Then many coiiimerclal centires LI vould be glad to pity for thec building. fi l'ho butildings would cost; the county 1 lothing, even w here thoro is no 11lour- i t hing city with several thousandi pop- c~ lation. The expense for the court :1 aouse andI jail, say for Sahuda would b1)0 820,000, wouh Iheb more than saved ini I ( ivye years in the saving of miilontgo and hi ,he saving of Limio for witnesses. The Ii .'xpenses of a troop) of witnesses. leav-p nig out the citiz'ons' interests, would L, tilI count, uip. All the owneis of real a' rstate, the miorehanits and others it hie old county seats Lthink they hav e h; m right to levy tri buto on their fin ow Li ,itizens who live twenty or Lthirt ya niles away. Ile said ho hatd niotlhingl ' ,o charige aginist the lawyers, fhio beL Was5 once a otno-hioise lawyer. hait, he Ti mist they ttio atiy laz'y. Tlho lawyerso yoe inclined to miake thue elionts comoe ,) them. Th'le way to i irighton the witsa >f thi latwyer- was to n tt'ko him rido to ,he clients. -'~ -...r I le wvent on to say he want tid Li) S uhis State li ke oth'ersm. atnd kee p up " wvithi the uiaich of civil izationi. I veiny Ii ouri t, hou)s3, lie tirged~l, was a con tre of eduication. Thu young men would atteond court and profit by the' axampile they saw. When men l ivedl fr from the county seat they loathed to 0 Lg It ( distatt i'out, hioise. 11e0 mid this custom of having L)t.o Si) r arT from home oflten led to trotuble. l'vumry riOw county coutL i house' e'stablishued ini the (lark cor'nir m or sileepy hol)1lows of thle State. would1 i d to asi iuch for thoso somuhnitLies us any colletge-. Y ea, Tinre. The pe~ople will tick there-i. ti Lands will go up. It with polish man- d 1iers and will somnew hat ivilizet the pee- tJ pie, lie did not hesitate to say there - were many c3omunitios which wer-e ( haicivilized. and all bocauseof the lack c. f facilities for proper cultivation. IIe o maid a mombeir of the convention wriote him a note saying ho neveir saw his ai )ourtL house untiIl he went there as a h luror. So mtich for the school house S featuire. So miuch foir the judieial sys-,. tomn and so much for the vested r'ight s I do not want to beito ptejudice, I 1I lid not come here for that purpose, il but merely to appeal to'tho'convenpion C statemient and apologized for its use. Mr. Gary saili he did not hear it. Mr. Till man said he did apologiz k) the convention and refort'ed to Mi Jones, who raised the point of ordei Mr. Gary said that it was sullicier to hoar it now. Mr'. Tillipan in coucluding said i bad been consulted by frionds an ave advice as to how best to act. Mr. Gary repliedby saying that Mi rillimn had just admitted he won nto an alliance certainly as bad as our f there was any. lie said it would b rery well to pass over the rest of wha vas said, but when Mr. Tillinan sai 10 was replying to an attack froimi riend and " an untru~h " he had gon .00 far. Such demanded his attention: t was u nparlia imontary and utncalle tor, lot whatl he had said was admitted Nhen men chalrge aniothler with an u :ruth in a parliamentary body it is th olicern of the body an that preclude ta beling resented outside, but h4 vanted to stato that if the gentlena and used that languago towards hil in the outside of the convention h1 vould have resented it as gentlemne tsually did. Mr. Tillmnan was in his char' lookinl round. Mr. Gary took a seat on tih isle, not far from Senator Tilnma nd the tempest seomed to be at a nd. 'i'i.; TOWNSHIP SYSTEM. hte New Eniglaid Plan o0' Local Govrnimient--f-Congrestman Till nmian Wants to 14ngafl it- oni 8onti Carolina. The constitutional convention hat nder consideration the following ection relating- to county govern nents: "E ach of the several town hips of this State, with names ani oundaries as uew established by law hall constitute a body politic, but thil hal not prevent, the legislature (ron irgan izing other tow nships." 'Mr. Johnstone said he proposed ti iofor an amendment that the legisla ure shall hot be Allowed to form nei ownshipis nor change the boundurle if those now existing. Mr. G.. , D. Tillian spoke in ftvoi (, township gover'ninents as they ar stablitlied in New 10ngland and soni ither States. The Radical constitution has doni wo things Ahat were the greates lessings to thp . State. In the lIrs )lace it planted the 'sedis of populfa ducation. 'The eniocrats adopted t reluctantly bitnow it-has secured th riendship of our-. poploe. But ther : another. Tho township governmen s a better liravislon even thai tha 'or free schools. If lie could be th n.eans of inducing the convention t )lant the acorn, so to speak, of town ihip government; or evei to. nutur the plant of the Republican so tha it could come to full fruition he woul want no better monument to hi mnemory. .He believed In the soyei cignty of the individual, the kingshji f each citizen' as it woe,, and the L'ould not be so affectually obtained a In -township.- gover.nments., In. Con eocticut..the townships have a area c hirty-sjx square miles. That is 1 ittle State in Itself-a sove'reignt tself. Eiach- has a legislature, .a judi *iary, a treasurer and a constable .o ts own. Elacit tovnmhip,qeI.ets thiree ive or seven men called select;-men o upei-visors. W6 proposed to cal ,homn "diredtors ' rathbr than- coml nissioners,- because that name haP a ad r.eputatlon, for tlirough coua i ommissioners more robbem'y 'of "the >eople) occurred than anywhere 6se. t is proposed that these directo;s hould'. have control of the roads, for ,ios and bridges, .pu.blic schools, ap toint managers of electioh afid -riste 'oters of the township; We have township commissionierj ow, but they are. applolnted by thi rovoetr at thme -suggestion of. t~h< enator and, he .vent~uredl to say tha maif of .the peoplie didn't khow who the omniasdloner's are. In Nerv Riklgand they know :who th<( >est thl~en are for- overeore, who t1ly >est teachers are and so .on ia they ~ppoint thiem and as aL conupquence th< vhole people are- so benefited 'tlia hey aro the''nibsti progrellive peopl< n pJoltical and industrial affairs in ti vorld. Mr. Ira 11. Jonss asked Mr-. T'llmac o explal i the corporative'expense ant moi4 his plan would work .in sparsei3 ettled agricultunral districts. .. Mr-..Tillmuan said when he' was oi bo03 ~oing to school he attended a town hip meeting near- loston. 'Te peoO >le all attended and took the gretatesi nterot In - verytihing anid wanted t< enow how all t lhn money wa~s splent 'ley got pay, hut it wasn't much. L'here wore no loaks thei-c. Trhmefe' uo chance for stealing because every ody wats interested and looked aftem he flnancos. ' When Ohio was hirst admitted ther< van a great light ,whethber to adop own)ships or county governments an< he, township won by ohe vote and thi ieople( of Ohio attri bute their wonder ul progress and prosplerity to tll'fac >st much as to anythiing else. The 1iopublitians in this State adopt ad thme townshtp government in .1811 st, haid' to reipeaL it the nie),t yea >eeaut~se thA3Lr-wer'e noQ to)wnsh ips lah sif. But,~ later' township lihes- wern aid off. ~ile thought it would be cheappi fovennment and miore( eflicient go ver'n neont. I t ,would . pr-ovont emmbezz.lo menot. As to spathe population he said' that Mhroughout the North there are aman) 3ountles no more thickly settled that we ar'e. ft would cost no more to kooj ip roads and bridges with a spar'< p)pla~tioni than with a dense one. lnm-our aystem ouri schooi limis dione.a.s. go about anid appiniOft thoil friendcs and partisans as membl)ers o le school boards and they in tura 3itdet thoir relatives or friends teacher; arid the- people have nothing to di with It. is it righlt that the Gover acor appoint partisan county manager frem our elections who in turn app~oin tlir' partisans -at 'the proc Inets T'hat isn't Denmocratic, isn'et self gov srn mont. Hie said that at 'pmresent we 'ha'y townships comniissioners; but that ia top heavy scheme and .is .wrong,. be cause the people ought to move ani take action tb sledit -its townsthl rulers. That's Doemoy as deline' by aefferson.. Our present system I but cary~ing out the mnonopolist~i system now so prevalent in the South The niflcra are appointed, not electe by the people. T110 eOhlemo as the committee outlines it is to- allow each o township to be a little sovereignty of Itself. There is a saving . olauso allowiug counties like Beaufort, for in t stance, to be excepted and continue the county government scheme, whieb D he h ialeamed was a failure. Tihe foun I tain.head of authority 4tarted at the capital, went, to the county seats and then to the people. "it should he just t tle reverse.-. - It is proposed to make , the Legislature recognize the present S -towiiship boundaries and to requir I t them to bear the necessary expense I of a county and State government such i as court houses, bridges, prisons. etc. We..don't )ro)ose to aIbolih county governmzents or, keep the townships I from hearing the proper portion of the expenses of that and the State government. It Will -ho In the town. . ship aind attend to thestrict, local Mat 3 ters in their own wyay. l He knows of no mithod or obtain-i 1 ing white supremacy in the State by I fair and honest means than from the J migratory habits of the negro. 1ly I localizing the election distrhgts and requiring to live in the' State two r years and, the election' district -one f year, he helieved'this migratory habit would disfranchise IL large Majority of I them, While the white men as a rule are joined to the soil, but the bulk of negroes aro always hunting places where they needn't to work at all and i they would be disfranchised. le I believed by his subdivision one-tird - of the negro vote in South Carolina 1 I would 'ho done away with. Other- i wise ho saw no wiay how it could be I honestly done. unicas women who Owned property we re allowed to vote. m Tho most iImportant duty it Is pro- I posed to give these director's is the 1 I inaking out the registration list of t voter's. Thoy would know who should 1 not be allowed to vote. Compare that system with one man sycteu--say for i comity like 4dgeilold. Outr plan doesn't contetuplato any I interforence with m1iunilcilpal govern- C ments. i tis our only object to) concen- e trate the energies anld intellect ot the I backwoods people, so to speak ; to en- v able the 'scattered country people to I hold their own with the town. It do centralizot th$.go.ve'nmont. No ono I man power there. ' - . Mr. Tillman had spoken for about m an hour and ovi-.body listened with 9 groat interest. In conoluding lie sid: S"In a few years at tile farthest I i will have disappeared from the stage of action. L3Bfotre I go, - hufo'e I qu-it i 3 public lifo, I would like to do some- 1 thing that woultd benefit our grand old t Ilother. li$ate for .ages to come and if possibin prsiervo . my liame from a oblivion. - If t knew I bud to be called in tile next ton 'minutes to give all lc n count before th greatqGod, w ho created t us all, if I was permitted to say what 1 I believed would do tie most for our e State, With ly expfring breath I would adviso yoii to establish tovnsh ip gov p ernmentsin' the Stiat,.. If 1 but plant t the scod 1 'Aitli want n1o.bett'r epitaph El on my tomb.: .-HerC lies Oio W1 ho helped to estab-lish townsilip govern f ment in Soilth Carolina.' I know no t 'doi.en tlhings that will do .so much forI the State or do~so much to make this - convention immnor'tal in the zuinals of t his State" Mr. Stanytizrno Wilson said that the tdose attention given to Mr. Tillman I showpd th, approciation of the argu mn ent,.'but, as mueli as he io'ould like to make contribution C6 his monument as he desirl'it, he'could not agroo with hig ideas. Wo .couId not deal witoh theoi:.os; but conditions inl South Caro lina. i,6611 was I philosophor and eonom1ist- aid 'wi-ote 'a book which ho tioi'Ighlt woitld settle, most of the per plexing questions. of tie day, but his ideas w(r3. dreanmn. IMt.'. Tiilman's plan is totally unfit for Coniditionis in -South Car'olina, not .~ithstanding li, -builds well. Hio pI ointas us to New lEnglami andl the West. .ut . is there no difference bo t1ween New lI'ngliand andl Sonilh Citro-1 hlL :' 'WVlth a dense wh ite pop ulation, 4 imedo c(api-tal, numerfou'(11 towlis, how cliii 'we in.ioutlh. Carolina follow thleir' 1 lead ?".. Dorliami asked w heth-er the ~township systemii was not adopted in * those States when thbey were sptarsely settled. Mr.,. Wilson sid lie dlid nt know, but our population is di iferent. Our pap tilation has a - negro miajority4 Oui' ionldltionls h'r dIifferenut anud requiro 1 dliffereint t:atmnt, and need3( the prio- 1 tection (if the goveiremont of tile Stiat. You can't apply t11e system hero, be oause we have -no homogeneous pIopu lation. Take lBeauufort, and portIons of Colleton what - would be the result of th is system ? it is hard1ly nlecessairy to say. It is patent WA) all.4 Mr'. Trillnmn inter'rup~ting said lie ox pressly said that' the frechold voters 'should cloc4 thle dIrectors. We also say that aniy county which wished could be excepted from the systemi. This ivas dono~ to motl thbo cond itlins ,in tile lower counties. Mr'. WIlson wont on t~ argue that the lack of wealth, I oplahtioni mand hlomogei)'Ity In South jaro iIna ascomn - piode~ with New~ I'ngland was sufficient to kill Mr'. T1illman's plan. None of -those Statlos had ever had a population 1 likec ours. Money has Ilown Into those I s States foir the past fortg or lifty -years while bouith- Carolina has had LI) de- 1 -tan anyihing else anid she can-lt hoiu comlparhe~d to theni. I 'ractietlly Mr'. Ti Illman 's plant Is to abolIsh prosenit counlty linios- andl estab 1181- 3(101' i~OrImor priniciplfllitica. I low abom.t thec debt ? 11pw can these town shipso so intiinatelIy conli1,md ats to pay a debt contracted by ' the whole county? H-ow about assC~iessolts ? -It. will be impossible for the county to have a. genijral uassessmeont, and pro servoO ti,x cunty aton~omy. Asm WA) ''muanaf~b's of election he pro IpoHos to gife ethi'eo i.n caelt townbhip tO> appoiiit mnagers. They will be - no0 mlore angel lj than. those apptointee l by the Governor. Nbthing will -'b L easier' thin for them to 'appoint manai goers who will return them t~o ollice. -- -'Phlero are just -as mhanly evils ,in. eon? nootioin: with one sys~em ts the othler. 5 Tbh prost,~f county gover'niienlt he Scpneidd amne MA nbar giving South - Crolnatownship government as hor I ebndition demande.- Hie dlefended.the > appointmient-of the three cumniishioi 1 ors o~n the. grQund that in the lonei' e ounties, espooeiallf,it would b6 inr' a poskible - for the- righ t sor't,..Qf reen) tp . he .seectdi Thm'esi cormmssioneors' Ij duties are hust whnM. '1titman Want except as to the apJoluinmont of 010 tion managers and he saw no reason in the .world why this power should he given them. As to our school iystem it was in about' as good cond ition now asi could be wanted. The objections to electing the commissioners apply to the plan of of electing the school trustees. fie took another view of the argu ment and held that these provisions had no business.het p, because i it was not expressly prohibited the Legisla Lure in Its power could establish the ystem if it wanted or the peoplo Jnanded. Mr. Parrott: Was the present sys in of the county government author xed by a constitutional amendment ?" Mr. Vilnon said not but that the lands of the Legislature were simply autied. lie argued that Mr. Tillman's plan hYas an uncertain thing in the South. It had never been tried and lot us-not uake any such serious experhinents. Ljcave it all to the Legislature to take are of the rights of the people. lie noved to lay the section on the table. ir. Otts out red the following as a l"Itach of the townships of the State with names and boundaries as now or lereafter established by the General esembly shall be a body politic and .orporate and the General Assembly uh1all provide a uniform system of local rovernment for the same, and require ich township to contribute its propor lonal part of the propor expenses of 6n eticient. county an( State govern nont." Mr. OLts in explaining his substituto aid we simply proposed to carry out )enocratic government as endorsed 0Y Je1erson. lHe granted that condi lons in Now 10ngland were dilTerent, ut the system has been tried in new tates In the West and was found to vork all right. It is nothing new. Mr. Wilson hegs the question when ie states that we are trying to make a DuIty out of Overy township. Suppose 011u towiship wants to have a special chool levy that would not do for the vholc county, why can't it be allowed 0 do so.? [fe hold that the racial conditions kad much changed and he believed here would be it greater one by Janu 6ry, 1896. As a matter of fact the no 'os now controlled no county in the tate savelone. It is a notorious fact that ho old county commissioner system vaus a failure, and while the present is i inprovement it conies far from nouting the expeotatlons of its friends. A, is hard to place the responsibilty aOr any tling. The commissioners and Lhc supervisors always put the blame :n each other when anything goes wrong. As to the debt there will be no trouble about that, because it is proposed to fix it so that the townships is at whole shall be responsible for general county expenses such as debt, poor housos, etc. Mr. i3uist, expressed surprise at Mr. Wilson being so earnest against town hip governments. Only tile other lay he was just a earnestly advoca ing the compelling of the incorpora Lion of factory towns. Mr. liarton offored tile following l"'achi of the several towliships of his State with name's and boundaries is now establised by law, shall consti ,uto a body politic, but this shall not revent the General Assembly from )rganizing otlher townships or chang ng the boundaries of those already es ,ablished and the General Assembly litny provide such system of township rovernment as they shall think )ro)er." rNi. iluist maid this had some good eaturos hut he proforrod Mr. Ott's mitleld ndItt. AMr. Cooper stated that, in the town hllip inl which ho lived in Colleton Jounity there wore two negro freehold ri' to (one wvhi to. Mr'. I iist said it was' so plrovideid 1hat such counties can be excepted 14m1 the opeIration oIf the law. Ml'. l'arrott took the position that hr prosent systeml of county govern hunt gave the State exactly what 11cers tihe supp)Iorters of the township ystemn wanted. Mlr. iiur'ns announced thalt lie was or the amiendmennt. Hie saidl the old late government fou nded onf slavery old not be used for a free govern ient. We ar'e tryineg now to main ain a systeom of half slavery, it can't 53 doine. In~stead (of piling conditions n negroes whlich involve free white len;1 he favored throwing open the aint andi allow immligration agents t~o ake negroes away nndl leave room for hite laboring men01 tol conmc inl andc nd1( local gfovernmlent'i in which they ~ould havo parLt and in which they ~ouid fool thlemslves free American - Mir. lhowman said he cold~ lnact, iothing-i to give tile people local self overinont, better' thn, tIls schomoe. ~Vhon directors are elected in town hlips each oflicer is under the eye and uporvision of the -ploople directly. itL -iii 1)0 an edhucation to the young poo-. lo- It, will 1h0 an Obljoot lesson to thema ii ,lho art or government. As to the Ilsti0on (If e xpense, I f the people are onvincedl that Cxpensels0 are reduced y'thie system they will favor it, be muse their children will be better ed cated andl roads will be better. After he sutfraigo plan is adopted there will 5, ver~y little danger from the negro. The wo, id's record for railroad >0eeO (ver' a groat distance has been~ iroken to-day by a special train on the 1ako Shore and Michigan Southern tailrogdl. whlichl ran from . Tenth t~reot, Chicago, to liuftalo Creek, Hut-. ale, a distance of 51i0.1 tald in 481 iinutes and i seconds, an averdge gIood of (13.110 miles0 an hour. This lme inlude~ls stops. 10xclusive -of tops, "the run -was mande in. 470,rnii aes anid 10 i econds, an average speed if 6.98 milE a an hour. ,,-Ai absent mitided mnt entered :a ihoo-940o. the other'dey 'and wanted is bg geasredfor a -pi fshoes,. lohler "Thunder 1" sali th' nian ; PIve left the boy at home I Ill go and et, him ;" sand off he started fer his .When yoar stomach . is out of order and your skin Is yellow, indlo ing M disordered 1l1 r, take Jonson a Zidmtey and Live't R6kula tor, the grb tot al .difei nes-.an.5 forming Saluda -he hold conferences with the Mart Gary count , people and tho lines of Saluda were made to suit that county. Senator Tillman wanted to amend the second section this morn Ing because it didn't suit the Green wood County people. It is time for Abbeville to act oribe wiped from the may. Edgetield boasts of her generos. Ity. After Edgoliold was dismembered she has almost as many square- miles asoAbbeville now. Mr. G. D. Tillman wanted to inter- I rupt several times, when Mr. Gary I said a shrewd lawyor always wanted to i interrupt when tlhe9 argument went I against hhn. Mrv. Tillman : Wihy, I never I claimed to be more than a one-horse I lawyer." (Laughter.) Ife went On to I say that they proposed to form two I morec counties out of Idgeliold. Mr. Klugh hold that when counties t were formod 100 years ago, It was thv ( custom to get tie geographical center I as the county seat. That has been the i custom ever since. The ton milo limit I is the logical outcome of the conven tion's action iakinhg now counties -100 square miles. If you go nearer th'm t ten miles you throw the county seat out of the geographical conter. 1 Mr. Sheppard in replying to Mr. i Gary, t.alled his attention to the fact v that he voted every tine in favor of c those m6ren0sures that would protect old counties. As a matter of fact Saluda County runs less than Oight, miles of Edgetiold court house. A majority of q the court houses In South Carolina are less than ton miles of the county lines. Sonator Tillman here took thu Iloor and said he did not Huppoe! that any one who knew him would say that he was not a -harld hittor, but when fairly hit he did not complain. Yesterday, without measuring his words and more by a slip of the tongue than any thing olse he had referred to the unholy alliance of Ulb old county and new county forces, andhad tormed It t " damnable alliance." lo apologized for what he had said. He did not in tend when he reforred to the damn able alliance to cast any rollections t upon any of the members, but it was < rather a joko at the peculiar align ment of those who had voted against k his amendment limiting the number of countios to sixty-two, and It reminded hin of the unholy alliance of' the bar koopers and the anti-dispensary peo- t ple in the light. Now, however, when I he had been struck by one whom he considered his friend,. and an imputa tion of dishonesty had boon made and he has boon charged with an untruth, I ie said he felt Impelled to'rosent it. I 'Mr. Gary had stid he had gono into a I conspiracy or combination, and he I asked Mr. Gary what the word was. Mr. Gary arose and said that he did not remember the exact word. Mr, Tilhnan said that as he roem bored it' he had been cha-god with -going into some conspiracy or combina tion between the.advocates of the Mart .Gary and Saluda County so as to secure the two counties through the Conven tion. Mr. Gary arose and said that whit; .o, did say was, "That Mr. Tillman, as 11one of the representatives and special champions of the Mart Gary I County, had conferrod with the advo- - cates of Greenwood County and had i .agreed to soluct out what should go i to Greenwood and what to Mart Gary I County, and that if what .was charged was not true that the gentleman had been most zealous." Mr. Tillman said be came from the I county where the people who were in- t torested in those counties lived ; Lhat I ie looked upon thern as a part of his I constituency and they looked upon i him as .their representative. They r had consulted him as their reproeonta- I tive as to their best interests, and as N a public ser-vant, he had advised them as hre believed It to be his duty asr to the interests in host forwarding their new counties. Tihie peop0Jle, he e lieved, needed the counties, and coni- I sequently he assisted 'ttlir at thei a r-equeost. lie said that it wras 'well known thia.t for the last for-ty year-s 1 efforts had heon mairde to divide l'ki go- I fiold County, and the great trouble had comoc f-rmn the opposition of cer tainm townships wanting to go with I cetain towns. Two of the upper-? I towinshi ps wanted to go to Ninety-( Six or that section, and theo two on the lower Jar-t of tire cournty wanted to go I with i latesburg. 11e said that It was I r-oalized that unless there was seine a understandling as to '.he teritory It would be ouit of the question to carry out the dlesir-es of tho~se people. Hei a wanted to know whether there was any conspiracy cir combllination in try- i ing -to assist those people in) getting I what, they wanted. No delegations' wer-e inivol ved and no un rderhand weork was done. Mr.' Gar-y wanted to know whetheri Abbrevillo and Blar-nwell and hloaufor-t t and Oi-angeur-g arid thre othbr coun ties that, had voted with Abbeville had gone Into a corn 431iracy or corinra- t tion.t Al r. Tillmaurn said that ho did rnot so char-ge. Mir. Gar-y said :" YOU woro) denounear ing 4)ur1 voting together tand tetrmied it a daniable a3lliance." Mr-. T'llmtian went mun to say that Mi-. Gary and his friends ini conjunction 1 swith his brother- and o)ther-s had taken< a 4ortaini line that, seoimed peuliari und~er thre ci crenitanmces, anui h)ofore he conicludeld with this idea nhr. Tl' bert ava~se and~ sutggo'ted thbat these boys wetro out of order- and that, the Cenverntieun ought to go along with its work. .Senator ill Iman r-op' ied very vigor ously that, he hadl a ig lht to mal k and that he wouald talk oni, that lie did rnot p repose to have his honesty rind his honor and his integr-ity imrpugned with Out r-eplyirng. Thour he wrnt on to say that it was especially hard that a frienid should pitch rockIis straight 3,into his teeth and wanted to know whbethemr he liad not a right to reply to any Im putations against him. lie said that hre radmir-ed the fight thme Abboville dlolgationi had made and had so stated. He went on to ask wiry it had been intimated lie had acted dlishonorably. lie said he did not want-to have any per-sonal diflulty or engender any hard feelings, but lie could niot sit in his place and hear any insinuations against himr, when lie had triecd to con duct this debate on a high eplane amid act, honor-ably, fairly and honestly. Mr. Glary said lie objected to being told that lie had entered into a "damnna ble alliance." Mr. Tillmnan said he withdrow thel